silver keris toli-toli ( comments pls)

Battara · 23rd May 2013, 10:56 PM

So if I understand right, toli-tolis like this one are recent. What do older toli-tolis look like?

Sajen · 23rd May 2013, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

So if I understand right, toli-tolis like this one are recent. What do older toli-tolis look like?

Hello Jose,

will try to take pictures from the book Senjata Pusaka Bugis at weekend.

Regards,

Detlef

Jean · 25th May 2013, 08:45 AM

Hello Detlef and Jose,
In this book only 2 silver toli-toli are shown and at least one of them is recent. You can see nice and old gold specimens in the books "Keris" from Dr Hamzuri (pusakas from the Jakarta Museum) and "Courts of Indonesia" by Helen Jessup.
Regards

Sajen · 26th May 2013, 02:17 PM

Here the pictures from the two examples shown in the above mentioned book. frankly said i don't know from which one Jean think that it is recent.

Regards,

Detlef

Jean · 26th May 2013, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Here the pictures from the two examples shown in the above mentioned book. frankly said i don't know from which one Jean think that it is recent.

Regards,

Detlef

Hello Detlef and Jose,
The kris shown on the right of the picture has a recent sheath and hilt IMO, see another specimen with a similar embedded silver wire decoration on the bottom part of the gandar (not Sulawesi Bugis but rather from Bali/ Lombok or Sumbawa?). However this style of decoration seems a bit less recent than the spiral wires and flowers seen on the sheath shown by Mykeris. But other opinions are welcome!

Regards

David · 26th May 2013, 05:39 PM

Frankly, the work on this first example that MyKeris posted looks like a hot mess. The workmanship is really poor on this piece, no where near the quality of this older example that Jean has just posted. It is also far too much in regards to style. I much prefer the understated and more elegant effect of this last example.

Battara · 27th May 2013, 12:13 AM

Thank you all folks! What I can partially conclude is that the earlier toli-tolis are not chased but wire filigree in all the work.

I like the last example posted, and that has better craftsmanship. It has silver filigree all over instead of chasing and embossing, which I admit is more difficult in this case.

I hope I am correct in my analysis of the metal work of the earlier toli-toli.

Another question: does the presence of a toli-toli make the keris a ceremonial piece or is it a sign of nobility (or could it be both)?

26th May 2013, 02:17 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Here the pictures from the two examples shown in the above mentioned book. frankly said i don't know from which one Jean think that it is recent. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

23rd May 2013, 10:56 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	So if I understand right, toli-tolis like this one are recent. What do older toli-tolis look like?

25th May 2013, 08:45 AM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Detlef and Jose, In this book only 2 silver toli-toli are shown and at least one of them is recent. You can see nice and old gold specimens in the books "Keris" from Dr Hamzuri (pusakas from the Jakarta Museum) and "Courts of Indonesia" by Helen Jessup. Regards

26th May 2013, 05:39 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Frankly, the work on this first example that MyKeris posted looks like a hot mess. The workmanship is really poor on this piece, no where near the quality of this older example that Jean has just posted. It is also far too much in regards to style. I much prefer the understated and more elegant effect of this last example.

27th May 2013, 12:13 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Thank you all folks! What I can partially conclude is that the earlier toli-tolis are not chased but wire filigree in all the work. I like the last example posted, and that has better craftsmanship. It has silver filigree all over instead of chasing and embossing, which I admit is more difficult in this case. I hope I am correct in my analysis of the metal work of the earlier toli-toli. Another question: does the presence of a toli-toli make the keris a ceremonial piece or is it a sign of nobility (or could it be both)?