black sea yataghan

Tim Simmons · 12th October 2005, 05:39 PM

I am surprised this has not been brought to attention earlier. This picture is from. "Islamic Weapons, Maghrib to Moghul" by Anthony C Tirri, in this book the weapon is attributed to Algeria/Egypt. I think he is correct as the leatherwork is so clearly North African. Some way from the Black Sea I think? Tim

ariel · 12th October 2005, 06:19 PM

Tim:
This peculiar sword had been variously attributed to N. Africa and even Indonesia (By Hermann Historica, no less!).
However, the Askeri Muze in Istanbul has several of them and the curator there told me that it was a well known Ottoman sword called Laz Bicagi.
Second, look at the picture:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=black
No doubt what it is!
I agree that the forte looks just like Algerian Flyssa and the leatherwork like a Sudanese Gile, but.... This is a classic example of a mistaken identity; it teaches us that superficial similarities do not establish provenance.
Ahriman:
I handled quite a lot of them. The point is very, very thin, almost needle-like and I saw several with bent points.
The forked pommels break easily (see the original picture in this thread). Also, the horns protrude so much that wrist bending is almost impossible: worse than tulwars with oversized dish pommels. As a former fencer (foil and saber), I could not wield it with ease no matter what kind of grip I used. On the other hand, since these swords were primarily "pirate" type weapons (that's what Lazes did on top of smuggling) they were sure scary! As a psychological warfare these swords were great but technologically they were less than adequate.

12th October 2005, 05:39 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,844	who is correct? I am surprised this has not been brought to attention earlier. This picture is from. "Islamic Weapons, Maghrib to Moghul" by Anthony C Tirri, in this book the weapon is attributed to Algeria/Egypt. I think he is correct as the leatherwork is so clearly North African. Some way from the Black Sea I think? Tim Attached Images

12th October 2005, 06:19 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Tim: This peculiar sword had been variously attributed to N. Africa and even Indonesia (By Hermann Historica, no less!). However, the Askeri Muze in Istanbul has several of them and the curator there told me that it was a well known Ottoman sword called Laz Bicagi. Second, look at the picture: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=black No doubt what it is! I agree that the forte looks just like Algerian Flyssa and the leatherwork like a Sudanese Gile, but.... This is a classic example of a mistaken identity; it teaches us that superficial similarities do not establish provenance. Ahriman: I handled quite a lot of them. The point is very, very thin, almost needle-like and I saw several with bent points. The forked pommels break easily (see the original picture in this thread). Also, the horns protrude so much that wrist bending is almost impossible: worse than tulwars with oversized dish pommels. As a former fencer (foil and saber), I could not wield it with ease no matter what kind of grip I used. On the other hand, since these swords were primarily "pirate" type weapons (that's what Lazes did on top of smuggling) they were sure scary! As a psychological warfare these swords were great but technologically they were less than adequate.