INTERESTING Ottoman (?) sword.... very old... comments?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Valjhun,
This is a breathtaking piece!! which appears to be an Italian form, prior to the fully developed guards and probably dates end of the 15th c. according to typological examples found. In "Rapier and Smallsword 1460-1820" (A.V.B.Norman, London, 1980) a similar hilt is shown as Italian c.1475-1525 (shown on p.82 as hilt form #18). Norman notes an example of this hilt is held in the Doges palace in Venice (catalog G690).
In "Armi Bianche Italiene" (Boccia & Coelho, 1975, pl.145-47) these hilts are shown as Venetian c.1475-80.
It should be noted that these assymetrical form hilts were the basis in general for the later basket hilts known as schiavona, and the pommel form also is key to those seen on the schiavona. The schiavona was of course the distinct sword used by the Dalmatian guards who acted as guards as the Doge's palace in Venice.
The interesting marks with star and crescent may be Italian markings. In Boccia & Coelho (op.cit) p.358 there are blade markings which include the crescent moon, although they appear with either one or two crosses of the cross and orb form. I have not yet found one with the star, but would not be surprised for this to be included in such markings. The markings described are both noted as from Venice c.1500-1510.
I know I have seen a similar sword to this, especially by the distinctly shaped escutcheon on the crossguard, but as yet have not found it.

Now....please tell us where you have found this sword!!!

All the best,
Jim

Salaams Jim and Valjhun et al~ I was just flicking through the amazing thread on the european by Matchlock on Schiavona since I am convinced that this weapon rehilted appears on Ethiopian and other Red Sea derivatives in its two edged form. (and that this may be the blade we see in certain museums rehilted on long hilts and others in that region) Then right out of the blue comes this thread with an absolute show stopper !! An Italian Job !! and thanks to Matchlock he is onto this one with such well informed backup and photos. I feel certain that this sword is the key to the door for much that went on in that region.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[VANDOO]

VERY GOOD INFORMATION A COMBINATION OF A FEW OF THESE THREADS IN THE ETH. AND EURO. FORUMS RELATED TO SCHIAVONA WOULD MAKE A GOOD REFERENCE. RELATED TO SCHIAVONA

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

VERY GOOD INFORMATION A COMBINATION OF A FEW OF THESE THREADS IN THE ETH. AND EURO. FORUMS RELATED TO SCHIAVONA WOULD MAKE A GOOD REFERENCE. RELATED TO SCHIAVONA

Salaams VANDOO ~
Please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10455 and at #320 where I am observing what I believe are Schiavona styles that have slipped down the Red Sea and have been rehilted. Perhaps you can add weight to the discussion please. It appears that so far the styles are the two edged version and which I believe have been confused with Omani dancing swords.
Omani dancing sword are round tipped and very flexible to 90 degree bend between about the point to last third of blade. It seems to me that these Schiavona types are thicker, with pointed blades, hilted in Arabia, Yemen and Ethiopia are the Schiavona two edge type.
I have seen the discussion on Schiavonas on the European and follow its development closely.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.