SCHIAVONA SWORD VARIATIONS.

Matchlock · 8th July 2012, 03:58 PM

Exactly, Valjuhn,

Sorry for overlooking that thread.

You can identify your type of sword among the group displayed on the right in the photo from the Doges Palace at Venice I posted above.

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 8th July 2012, 04:23 PM

These Venetian swords are referred to in Armi Bianche, 1975.

m

sioume · 22nd July 2012, 04:18 PM

Hi all,

I just come back home and read all your posts.
Let me thank you for your interest and the photos as well.
I learned so much...Great and cool !!!
The thread "Schiavona and swords variations" was also very helpful.

About the Passau wolf on the blade, is it coherent to say that a blade could have been made in Passau and guard, pommel, quillons in Hungary.?
I read on Oakeshott books that parts of the swords can be made in several locations and put togheter in one. Blades due to their costs were often reused and swords becoming then composite.
What about that?

All the best
Alain

Matchlock · 22nd July 2012, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sioume

Hi all,

About the Passau wolf on the blade, is it coherent to say that a blade could have been made in Passau and guard, pommel, quillons in Hungary.?
I read on Oakeshott books that parts of the swords can be made in several locations and put togheter in one. Blades due to their costs were often reused and swords becoming then composite.
What about that?

All the best
Alain

Hi Alain,

Although blades, just like barrels, were exported widely it is more reasonable to assume that a blade showing a wolf mark and combined with an Eastern European hilt was most probably made in the same country as the hilt and, as I pointed out, the wolf was copied as a traditional trade mark because it was generally associated with superior quality.

Best,
Michael

VANDOO · 23rd July 2012, 05:38 AM

I HAVE JUST ENJOYED REVISITING AND READING THIS POST AND LOOKING AT THE PRETTY PICTURES. I NOTICIED SOMETHING ABOUT ONE EXAMPLE I POSTED EARLY IN THE POST. HERE IS A PICTURE OF IT SO YOU WON'T HAVE TO GO SEARCH TO SEE WHAT I AM REFERRING TO.
THE GAURD IS FORMED WITH FINGER JOINTS AND A CLAW AT THE END. PERHAPS A DRAGON OR CHIMERAS CLAWS ARE REPRESENTED. VERY COOL DON'T SEE HOW I MISSED IT BEFORE.

sioume · 23rd July 2012, 07:02 PM

Thanks Michael for explanations.
So how someone can recognize a blade made in Passau and one with a wolf mark on it on it?
What differentiates them?

Thank for helping
Best
Alain

Enibas · 23rd July 2012, 09:35 PM

I am new in the forum, so at first I say Hello to all.

I think it is not easy to recognize a real blade from Passau. But it is well known, that a lot of blades from Passau were sold to the Steiermark (Styria).

Certainly we would find in the Zeughaus Graz (Armoury of Graz, Styria) many
blades from Passau, which could be useful for comparative purposes.

In his book "Die Passauer Wolfsklingen" the author Dr. Heinz Huther noted a consistent practice of stamping and inlaying the wolfs mark of Passau by the craftsmen since 16th century.

But if that's true, why should not this practice have been copied also by other craftsmen?

The blades of passau are worth a new topic, I guess.

king regards
Ben

P.s.The sciavona shown by Vandoo is great! In my opinion a very old type around 1600 or before.

Matchlock · 24th July 2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sioume

Thanks Michael for explanations.
So how someone can recognize a blade made in Passau and one with a wolf mark on it on it?
What differentiates them?

Thank for helping
Best
Alain

Hi Alain,

As Ben has pointed out in the meantime - thanks, Ben, and welcome here

- differentiating between original Passau wolves and their manifold copies is virtually impossible.
I guess that as time passed, some 500-400 years ago, less armories were ready to pay the considerably higher prices charged for 'real' Passau blades claimed to have been imported from that Lower Bavarian city.

It seems to have become generally accepted in weaponry that saying 'Passau wolf' implies 'Passau style wolf'; the same applies to 'Solingen' wolves.
For a couple of decades, this lead arms historians to call many of those wolves 'contemporary fakes'. I think that that the neutral term copy would be more appropriate as nothing like a copyright existed in those historical times.

Best,
m

Matchlock · 24th July 2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

THE GAURD IS FORMED WITH FINGER JOINTS AND A CLAW AT THE END. PERHAPS A DRAGON OR CHIMERAS CLAWS ARE REPRESENTED. VERY COOL DON'T SEE HOW I MISSED IT BEFORE.

Hi Barry,

I have sometimes seen those joints elaborated as actual human fingers on rapier hilts!

m

8th July 2012, 03:58 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Exactly, Valjuhn, Sorry for overlooking that thread. You can identify your type of sword among the group displayed on the right in the photo from the Doges Palace at Venice I posted above. Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 8th July 2012 at 04:15 PM.

8th July 2012, 04:23 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	These Venetian swords are referred to in Armi Bianche, 1975. m Attached Images

23rd July 2012, 05:38 AM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAVE JUST ENJOYED REVISITING AND READING THIS POST AND LOOKING AT THE PRETTY PICTURES. I NOTICIED SOMETHING ABOUT ONE EXAMPLE I POSTED EARLY IN THE POST. HERE IS A PICTURE OF IT SO YOU WON'T HAVE TO GO SEARCH TO SEE WHAT I AM REFERRING TO. THE GAURD IS FORMED WITH FINGER JOINTS AND A CLAW AT THE END. PERHAPS A DRAGON OR CHIMERAS CLAWS ARE REPRESENTED. VERY COOL DON'T SEE HOW I MISSED IT BEFORE. Attached Images

23rd July 2012, 09:35 PM	#7
Enibas Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 13	Is it from Passau? I am new in the forum, so at first I say Hello to all. I think it is not easy to recognize a real blade from Passau. But it is well known, that a lot of blades from Passau were sold to the Steiermark (Styria). Certainly we would find in the Zeughaus Graz (Armoury of Graz, Styria) many blades from Passau, which could be useful for comparative purposes. In his book "Die Passauer Wolfsklingen" the author Dr. Heinz Huther noted a consistent practice of stamping and inlaying the wolfs mark of Passau by the craftsmen since 16th century. But if that's true, why should not this practice have been copied also by other craftsmen? The blades of passau are worth a new topic, I guess. king regards Ben P.s.The sciavona shown by Vandoo is great! In my opinion a very old type around 1600 or before.

22nd July 2012, 04:18 PM	#3
sioume Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 12	Hi all, I just come back home and read all your posts. Let me thank you for your interest and the photos as well. I learned so much...Great and cool !!! The thread "Schiavona and swords variations" was also very helpful. About the Passau wolf on the blade, is it coherent to say that a blade could have been made in Passau and guard, pommel, quillons in Hungary.? I read on Oakeshott books that parts of the swords can be made in several locations and put togheter in one. Blades due to their costs were often reused and swords becoming then composite. What about that? All the best Alain

23rd July 2012, 07:02 PM	#6
sioume Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 12	Thanks Michael for explanations. So how someone can recognize a blade made in Passau and one with a wolf mark on it on it? What differentiates them? Thank for helping Best Alain