A unique bronze barrel wall gun (doppelter Doppelhaken), Nuremberg, ca. 1515-20

[cannonmn]

Michael, thanks so much for the photos, that's a lot easier for me than having to deal with the museum.

I have this little slideshow of the hackbut, and if this is not adequate I will sit down and try to figure out how to post photos individually on this forum; of course I have separate url's for each one.

This hackbut was ordered by Ulrich von Schellenberg; you must be familiar with him because you like the Katzbalger, and Ulrich's sword in the KHM is one one of the finest I can imagine. I have a photo of it if anyone needs it but I have a feeling you all know that one.

The barrel is all I have, it weighs 36 lbs, is 36.75 inches long, and the bore measures 20.3mm, or 0.8 inches.

The barrel is bronze with a few iron inclusions including the chaplets for the core and one iron ring underneath (broken off.)

Decorations include flames, trefoils, and other unknown geometric shapes in patterns or rings around the barrel. The coat of arms is that of von Schellenberg.

Above the coat of arms are the letters which at first appear to be "I V R" but I am told by historians should be read as "J U R." I have thought of several possibilities for these letters but have not arrived on one that is foolproof yet.

Here's the slideshow, just mouse over the grid to see the photos.

There are several photos of a small round mark which appears to be struck, on the flash pan, and I thought it might be some kind of proof mark or maker's mark, but it is very indistinct, some simple figure, perhaps a bird in flight, in a circle?

Any insight you can give on this is most welcome.

http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...t=810e3bc0.pbw

[Matchlock]

Hi John,

I would have been much disappointed by myself, had I not recognized your barrel (remember it's not a complete haquebut) at first sight though the images on photobucket are tiny.

For all who wish to learn more on that item and its coat-of-arms, I post all the (unfortunately very small) images originally posted by the Springfield Arsenal because they were searching for information. I have to admit that was astonished to see the term of a the Late Gothic ornament quatrefoil misspelled as quatrafoil by a musem staff member ...

Your barrel with its unusually fine and profusely rich chiseled Early Renaissance decoration can be dated to ca. 1525-35. The originally swiveling bronze pan cover is now missing, just as on my Doppelhaken.

In order to be able and tell you more I would definitely need good-resolution images of the whole piece, as well as of all the details you questioned.

As a Medieval and Renaissance arms historian I can affirm the information given to you on how to interpret the three initials on your barrel. I am quite sure though they mark some later kind of arsenal inventory signature, and not that of the original owner.

In any case, this is a very fine - apart from obviously being preserved in excavated or salvaged condition - and espacially historically high-ranking item in early firearms history, so congratulations!

Do you have other similar items to match? I posted many items and overviews from my highly specialized collection here over the years, just see my threads.

Best,
Michael

[fernando]

[QUOTE=cannonmn] ... I have this little slideshow of the hackbut, and if this is not adequate I will sit down and try to figure out how to post photos individually on this forum; of course I have separate url's for each one...
QUOTE]

Yes, please do that, by all means.
You may read here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13631

If you need further help, just tell

[cannonmn]

Thanks Fernando. All the photos I have were posted in replies no. 16-18 above; I hope they will be satisfactory for your purposes.

[cannonmn]

I've found a more extensive biography on Ulrich von Schellenberg, here:

http://springfieldarsenal.files.word...es-excerpt.pdf

Unfortunately it is in German script so I can't transfer it to Google translate for the usual quick-and-dirty translation. I wonder if there are any free German script OCR programs out there so I could at least turn it into characters to enter an automatic translator? I can transliterate German script into more useful font, but takes more time than I have.

I'm not going to bother Michael about this one, he's already spent enough time translating this stuff.

I've also thought more about the "JUR" marking on the gun. I still believe it will be impossible to determine, with certainty, what that stands for, however it is almost certainly from a later period than the "1525" estimated date of manufacture, as Michael has said. One reason we know that is because the letters were crowded into a nice open space intentionally left above the coat-of-arms so the c.o.a. would be reasonably centered in an open (plain undecorated) area. I think the letters indicate a subsequent owner, after Ulrich had left the battle zone of northern Italy ca. 1529. It is possible that it was captured at some point, or more likely simply retained by whatever Swiss mercenary was using it, probably with Ulrich's consent. Or perhaps it remained under control of Ulrich's commander, General Ramon de Cardona. Who knows.

[Matchlock]

John, I read this 'biography' and believe me: it's not worth translating from a modern scholarly point of view. All it is is nothing more than an even more pompous and poetically as well as patriotically overdrawn 18th c. legendary version of the already rather bombastic 19th c. text I translated for you. No more facts, just heroic fantasy. I wouldn't give a dime.

Best,
Michael

[cannonmn]

Thanks Michael, that will save a lot of trouble.

[cannonmn]

I was leafing through Essenwein, A., QUELLEN ZUR GESCHICHTE DER FEUERWAFFEN, Academische Druck u.v. Graz 1969, Tafel Band, and noticed drawings of some cannons cast by Peter II Mulich of Zwickau. They have rings of undulating flames at various places along the barrel, just like my hackbut. These cannons range in date from 1523 to 1529. This is interesting to me as it indicates a connection between my hackbut and these cannons. I wonder if my hackbut could have been made by Mulich, who may have used the flames as a kind of trademark? If not, were these rings of undulating flames significant somehow to Charles V or to the Holy Roman Empire? What is the connection indicated by these flames? I am posting two images here which I can do under the international doctrine of fair use for educational purposes.

[Matchlock]

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE RESPECTIVE BUYER (who may have been the same in both cases).

The first item is the most ridiculous and primitive mid 20th c. "Italian" piece made to fool the biggest fool ever.

Compared to that, Goofy's "blunderbusses" are purest gold; they, at least, are funny ...

The second item is the world's finest known Nuremberg cast brass, or "bronze", haquebut barrel, half a millennium old, unmatched, and once ordered by an important person of history:
Ulrich von Schellenberg,
whose extremely fine Katzbalger is preserved in the Vienna Habsburg Armory, at the Kunsthistorisches Museum Wien.

They both fetched the same price, in the land of ... whatsoever.

The consigner, and the auction house, succeeded in generating a truly Freudian slip, misspelling
"hackbutt", for haquebut/hackbut.
On second thought, though, they mave been right ...

The State of Austria could not afford to purchase that singular piece - not now, nor in years in come ...
Tu felix Austria ..?!


A very sad "Good Night",
from a very sad

Michael,
who did his very best to save that barrel
but had to quit,
or commit murder suicide ...

[Matchlock]

More images.

[Matchlock]

And more.

[Matchlock]

Even more.

[Matchlock]

The rest.

[cannonmn]

Michael, I should clear up the misspelling:

I have to admit that was astonished to see the term of a the Late Gothic ornament quatrefoil misspelled as quatrafoil by a musem staff member ...

The video that came from was produced and directed by me, my company is Springfield Arsenal LLC. Perhaps you were thinking of the US National Park facility in Springfield, MA, known as "Springfield Arsenal," an historic site. We have nothing to do with that, we are a small company dealing in military relics, with a sizeable collection of artillery and odd items on the side.

Of course now you must recognize that the misspelling was inserted on purpose to attract the attention of, and elicit comments from highly educated and knowledgeable persons such as yourself!

I will make it a point to make larger images of the hackbut barrel available, forgive me but I will probably continue to use the term hackbut out of habit even though it is obviously a barrel.

I have asked some local experts in Altdeutsch here in the US to assist with a competent translation of about a paragraph of material on Ulrich von Schellenberg, from the online version of the ADB. The text is in what I'm told is "very old German." Google translate cannot make sense out of much of it. I had years of German in school but that was centuries ago, or so it seems, and most of it is gone, and I cannot make sense regarding who is doing what to whom in some cases. Friends who are native German-speakers cannot read it. There may also be some errors in it, or it could simply be my mis-reading. One portion of it mentions "when Ulrich was just beginning his military career in 1501.." That does not make sense to me because since he was born in 1487, he would have been only 14 years of age in 1501, at which time I suspect he had not yet left home to attend law school in Italy.

We have two other odd early weapons and will certainly undertake discussion of those here after we get the basic information on this hackbut digested.

[cannonmn]