Swedish Navy Shipwreck 'Svärdet' of 1676 with 86 Pieces of Cannon Discovered!

fernando · 19th November 2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... Hard to imagine captains who chose to go down with the ship...

Yeah, this is one of such issues !

Does it have to do with old time values?
... I mean, would captains do the same today?

At same time, were they expected to do that in the old days? A sort of "compulsive expectation", i mean.
As i don't think anybody would expect them to do that at present

.

Rick · 19th November 2011, 05:46 PM

The action report is disastrous; a compounding of errors, and with a lee shore at hand .

Perhaps staying with the ship would have been preferable for one's family and honor than a board of inquiry after the fact .

Another interesting thing; it's the lower gun ports; if I recall correctly both the Vasa and Mary Rose were at least partial victims to open lower gun ports .

Matchlock · 19th November 2011, 06:24 PM

This vivid painting, depicting the moment when the powder magazine exploded, was executed 10 years after the tragedy of 1676. Svärdet is seen on the right, engaged on both sides.

The other images show a model of Kronan, the battlefield site of 1676, and artefacts salvaged from the wreck of Kronan, such as cannon, matchlock and flintlock (?) muskets and musical instruments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronan_%28ship%29

Best,
Michael

Matchlock · 19th November 2011, 07:55 PM

Some close-ups of the matchlock stocks salvaged from the wreck of Kronan. The ship sank in 1676, but from the 1670's, telling by the 'French' buttstock and the rounded lock recess, is only the complete stock suspended on top. The others show stylistic elements of ca. 1600-20, like the long stock resting in the right bottom corner, with the oblong staghorn plaques fallen off the wood, and the fishtail butts indicating a period of ca. the 1620's-40's.
All stocks are of beechwood, some of them retaining areas of their original black stained surfaces, as well as their iron fore end mounts.

In the image second from bottom you can even see two balls preserved in the open box on the underside of the buttstock - which at the time was not yet a 'patchbox' but a ball reservoir. To its right a few tinned iron powder containers from a musketeers' bandoleer are displayed, one still retaining the amount of powder - see bottom image!

Most remarkable though I think is the fact that the relatively well preserved stocks incuding their thin iron mounts are still there while the much more stable stable lock mechanisms and barrels (!) seem to have vanished!

Best,
Michael

M ELEY · 19th November 2011, 10:05 PM

Incredible! As much as I love naval history, you wouldn't have been able to get me on one of those ships in the olden days. Was it Ben Johnson who said the famous quote about prison vs a ship; the only difference was with a ship, there was also a fear of drowning.
Rick- not just the Vasa and Mary Rose either. The worst disaster in maritime history prior to the Titanic was the wreck of the Royal George off Spithead in 178?. The ship was loaded with crowds, families, dignitaries while they were preparing to careen the hull. The guns had been moved from one side of the ship to the other to slightly tilt it, but the lower ports had been left open! Before they could correct the problem, the great ship (which had served in the Channel Fleet and during the Am Revolution) foundered. The loss of life was staggering. In the 1830's, they sent divers in the earliest deep diving apparatus to place a giant inflatable bladder in the ship to re-float it. It had just breached the surface when the powder hold blew, blasting the ship to pieces. To this day, one can sometimes find antiques made from the wood of the ship (I used to have a piece). Amazing how many senselessly tragic stories revolve around naval tragedy and colossal human error (Titanic, Mary Celeste, etc)

Rick · 20th November 2011, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

The worst disaster in maritime history prior to the Titanic was the wreck of the Royal George off Spithead in 178?. The ship was loaded with crowds, families, dignitaries while they were preparing to careen the hull. The guns had been moved from one side of the ship to the other to slightly tilt it, but the lower ports had been left open! Before they could correct the problem, the great ship (which had served in the Channel Fleet and during the Am Revolution) foundered. The loss of life was staggering.

Good lord !
Did you know that Royal George sank directly over the Mary Rose ?!?
I had no idea ...

Matchlock · 20th November 2011, 02:37 AM

Neither did I, Rick ... grrr!

Thanks for adding this,
and best from a cold and clear Bavarian night,
Michael

VANDOO · 20th November 2011, 02:56 AM

THANKS FOR POSTING THIS

I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED IN SHIPWRECKS AND HAVING BEEN A SCUBA DIVER SINCE 1961 HAVE DOVE ON QUITE A FEW AND HELPED SALVAGE ONE FOR A MUSEUM IN TEXAS. THIS WRECK APPEARS TO BE IN EXCELLENT SHAPE SO THERE SHOULD BE QUITE A LOT OF GOOD ARTEFACTS TO RECOVER. JUDGEING FROM THE REBREATHER EQUIPMENT BEING USED SHE IS QUITE DEEP AND THE SUITS INDICATE QUITE COLD. IF SURFACE CONDITIONS OR CURRENTS ARE STRONG IT WILL BE A DIFFICULT BIT OF SALVAGE. I WISH THE DIVERS MANY SAFE DIVES AND GREAT FINDS AS WELL AS WARM SHOWERS AFTER THEY COME UP.

M ELEY · 20th November 2011, 06:10 AM

Sank over top of the Mary Rose! Now that I didn't know! That coastline must have a few ghosts walking it-

Hi Barry,
Good to see you on this side of the Forum-

The wreck you mentioned? Did it happen to be the Pass Cavallo site? That one had a particularly large amount of artifacts.

19th November 2011, 06:24 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	The Sinking of Kronan - Painting of 1686 ! This vivid painting, depicting the moment when the powder magazine exploded, was executed 10 years after the tragedy of 1676. Svärdet is seen on the right, engaged on both sides. The other images show a model of Kronan, the battlefield site of 1676, and artefacts salvaged from the wreck of Kronan, such as cannon, matchlock and flintlock (?) muskets and musical instruments. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronan_%28ship%29 Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 19th November 2011 at 07:07 PM.

19th November 2011, 07:55 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Some close-ups of the matchlock stocks salvaged from the wreck of Kronan. The ship sank in 1676, but from the 1670's, telling by the 'French' buttstock and the rounded lock recess, is only the complete stock suspended on top. The others show stylistic elements of ca. 1600-20, like the long stock resting in the right bottom corner, with the oblong staghorn plaques fallen off the wood, and the fishtail butts indicating a period of ca. the 1620's-40's. All stocks are of beechwood, some of them retaining areas of their original black stained surfaces, as well as their iron fore end mounts. In the image second from bottom you can even see two balls preserved in the open box on the underside of the buttstock - which at the time was not yet a 'patchbox' but a ball reservoir. To its right a few tinned iron powder containers from a musketeers' bandoleer are displayed, one still retaining the amount of powder - see bottom image! Most remarkable though I think is the fact that the relatively well preserved stocks incuding their thin iron mounts are still there while the much more stable stable lock mechanisms and barrels (!) seem to have vanished! Best, Michael Attached Images

20th November 2011, 02:37 AM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Neither did I, Rick ... grrr! Thanks for adding this, and best from a cold and clear Bavarian night, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 21st November 2011 at 02:29 AM.

19th November 2011, 05:46 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	The action report is disastrous; a compounding of errors, and with a lee shore at hand . Perhaps staying with the ship would have been preferable for one's family and honor than a board of inquiry after the fact . Another interesting thing; it's the lower gun ports; if I recall correctly both the Vasa and Mary Rose were at least partial victims to open lower gun ports .

19th November 2011, 10:05 PM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,165	Incredible! As much as I love naval history, you wouldn't have been able to get me on one of those ships in the olden days. Was it Ben Johnson who said the famous quote about prison vs a ship; the only difference was with a ship, there was also a fear of drowning. Rick- not just the Vasa and Mary Rose either. The worst disaster in maritime history prior to the Titanic was the wreck of the Royal George off Spithead in 178?. The ship was loaded with crowds, families, dignitaries while they were preparing to careen the hull. The guns had been moved from one side of the ship to the other to slightly tilt it, but the lower ports had been left open! Before they could correct the problem, the great ship (which had served in the Channel Fleet and during the Am Revolution) foundered. The loss of life was staggering. In the 1830's, they sent divers in the earliest deep diving apparatus to place a giant inflatable bladder in the ship to re-float it. It had just breached the surface when the powder hold blew, blasting the ship to pieces. To this day, one can sometimes find antiques made from the wood of the ship (I used to have a piece). Amazing how many senselessly tragic stories revolve around naval tragedy and colossal human error (Titanic, Mary Celeste, etc)

20th November 2011, 02:56 AM	#8
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THANKS FOR POSTING THIS I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED IN SHIPWRECKS AND HAVING BEEN A SCUBA DIVER SINCE 1961 HAVE DOVE ON QUITE A FEW AND HELPED SALVAGE ONE FOR A MUSEUM IN TEXAS. THIS WRECK APPEARS TO BE IN EXCELLENT SHAPE SO THERE SHOULD BE QUITE A LOT OF GOOD ARTEFACTS TO RECOVER. JUDGEING FROM THE REBREATHER EQUIPMENT BEING USED SHE IS QUITE DEEP AND THE SUITS INDICATE QUITE COLD. IF SURFACE CONDITIONS OR CURRENTS ARE STRONG IT WILL BE A DIFFICULT BIT OF SALVAGE. I WISH THE DIVERS MANY SAFE DIVES AND GREAT FINDS AS WELL AS WARM SHOWERS AFTER THEY COME UP.

20th November 2011, 06:10 AM	#9
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,165	Sank over top of the Mary Rose! Now that I didn't know! That coastline must have a few ghosts walking it- Hi Barry, Good to see you on this side of the Forum- The wreck you mentioned? Did it happen to be the Pass Cavallo site? That one had a particularly large amount of artifacts.