Does cleaning a keris hurt overall value or patina?

David · 17th January 2011, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave78

There are so many different opinions here now, I'm not really sure what to do. One of the things I like most about my keris is that it looks its age (at least 60 years old). I think what I'm most concerned about is, if I do clean it, it will lose the appeal that only comes with natural age. I'm going to have to think this through again. Here's the pictures again if anyone is still interested:

I don't think that the opinions here are as diverse as they might appear. No one would suggest that you aggressively refinish this keris. There are degrees of cleaning. IMO removing dirt and oiling the wood of your sheath and hilt is not going to make your keris look any less aged. Likewise removing dirt and rust from your blade and oiling it will not make it look less old, just less rusty. And active rust is a destructive force and will over time eat into the metal of your blade cause irreparable damage to the blade.
All this work can easily be done without any loss to patina.

A. G. Maisey · 17th January 2011, 02:29 AM

David, as I said at the beginning of my post, I was giving an opinion, not providing advice.

If I were to provide advice, it would be more or less in line with the advice that has already been given:-

glue the scabbard together, use a good furniture oil to to clean it, I prefer Sheraton, then a good furniture wax, clean the hilt the same way, lightly clean the pendongkok, do a complete clean and stain of the blade.

If it were mine, that's what I'd do with it, and for a segment of the keris market this would also maximise value.

However, the keris market has a number of segments, and they do not all have the same requirements.

Similarly not all people who have keris in their possession have the same tastes, nor the same level of knowledge.

The objective of my initial post was to encourage dave78 to slow down, think about what had already been said, and decide if he wants to learn a little more about keris or if he simply wants to preserve a little bit of family memorabilia.

David · 17th January 2011, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The objective of my initial post was to encourage dave78 to slow down, think about what had already been said, and decide if he wants to learn a little more about keris or if he simply wants to preserve a little bit of family memorabilia.

Well exactly Alan. I have already acknowledged that there are different markets. That is why i have only suggested to Dave that he carefully clean his keris and rid it of active rust. I have a hard time seeing how those actions would have an adverse effect on any market.
I have not recommended staining or even re-gluing the sheath, two things that i would probably do with this keris were it in my hands.

A. G. Maisey · 18th January 2011, 01:52 AM

David, when I mentioned market segments, I was thinking in terms of all those people who do buy keris, not necessarily keris collectors.

With keris collectors, and simply weapons collectors who buy the occasional keris, there is mostly an acceptance that some maintenance work on things is not only acceptable, but necessary. Some of these people may prefer complete restorations, others may want graduations of that, still others will only touch a piece if it has been removed from place of origin a long time ago and recently discovered in the bottom of granddad's sea chest.

However, when we consider the preferences of tribal art collectors, most especially the really hard core of this segment, the demand for absolutely no interference with "as found" condition can go to extreme lengths.

David · 18th January 2011, 02:29 AM

Understood and agreed Alan. However, i could be wrong, but i don't think Dave has made his enquiry here because he is planning on selling his new inheritance. I think he just doesn't want to do the "wrong" thing. Of course "right" and "wrong" here is rather subjective. These various markets must be quite a confusion to him. In the end i think it comes back to something you said earlier, "forget the market value and simply do what makes you feel good".

A. G. Maisey · 18th January 2011, 02:53 AM

Yeah, you're probably right David, however, when a question is phrased in terms of "value", it can generate answers other than those sought.

Again yes, I do really believe that we should all treat our collections in the way that best suits us. Sure, there is some sort of responsibility towards following generations, and when we develop a cultural conscience it does become obvious that we need to preserve the past, but on the other hand,each of us needs to live with what have.

I think my encouragement to act according to our own desires stops a bit short of grabbing the can of gold spray paint --- and as for Araldite, well, I reckon it should only be sold on licence.

17th January 2011, 02:29 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	David, as I said at the beginning of my post, I was giving an opinion, not providing advice. If I were to provide advice, it would be more or less in line with the advice that has already been given:- glue the scabbard together, use a good furniture oil to to clean it, I prefer Sheraton, then a good furniture wax, clean the hilt the same way, lightly clean the pendongkok, do a complete clean and stain of the blade. If it were mine, that's what I'd do with it, and for a segment of the keris market this would also maximise value. However, the keris market has a number of segments, and they do not all have the same requirements. Similarly not all people who have keris in their possession have the same tastes, nor the same level of knowledge. The objective of my initial post was to encourage dave78 to slow down, think about what had already been said, and decide if he wants to learn a little more about keris or if he simply wants to preserve a little bit of family memorabilia.

18th January 2011, 01:52 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	David, when I mentioned market segments, I was thinking in terms of all those people who do buy keris, not necessarily keris collectors. With keris collectors, and simply weapons collectors who buy the occasional keris, there is mostly an acceptance that some maintenance work on things is not only acceptable, but necessary. Some of these people may prefer complete restorations, others may want graduations of that, still others will only touch a piece if it has been removed from place of origin a long time ago and recently discovered in the bottom of granddad's sea chest. However, when we consider the preferences of tribal art collectors, most especially the really hard core of this segment, the demand for absolutely no interference with "as found" condition can go to extreme lengths.

18th January 2011, 02:29 AM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Understood and agreed Alan. However, i could be wrong, but i don't think Dave has made his enquiry here because he is planning on selling his new inheritance. I think he just doesn't want to do the "wrong" thing. Of course "right" and "wrong" here is rather subjective. These various markets must be quite a confusion to him. In the end i think it comes back to something you said earlier, "forget the market value and simply do what makes you feel good".

18th January 2011, 02:53 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yeah, you're probably right David, however, when a question is phrased in terms of "value", it can generate answers other than those sought. Again yes, I do really believe that we should all treat our collections in the way that best suits us. Sure, there is some sort of responsibility towards following generations, and when we develop a cultural conscience it does become obvious that we need to preserve the past, but on the other hand,each of us needs to live with what have. I think my encouragement to act according to our own desires stops a bit short of grabbing the can of gold spray paint --- and as for Araldite, well, I reckon it should only be sold on licence.