A rapier for Christmas

[Marc]

Originally Posted by celtan

Hablen en cristiano!

: )

You know, I've seen pretty serious fights being started by these very words*...

Well, ready your weapons, Sir! Fernando, pass me that rapier! I have to... er... defend my honour!

Now the question is... can I run away with it faster than a harquebut bullet?

* Just because this is kind of an inside (one could even say "ethnographic", now that I think about it… ) joke, and need some knowledge of a certain cultural framework to be truly understood, I prefer to err on the caution side and say this: although what I just wrote is nothing but true, I’m just joking. There’s nothing but animus iocandi at play, here.

[Jim McDougall]

Guys, Im really not a scrooge so I hope I can add some comments about the sword without breaking the Christmas spirit no groans OK?

Im too lazy to try to excavate the Norman book here in the bus, and you already have it Nando, but I did find some interesting help in Wagner regarding the pommel, which seems to intrigue me the most on this fantastic rapier. The fact that it is clearly marked for Gonzalo Simon c. 1617 in Toledo of course pretty much rests the case for the sword, but you were trying to type the pommel.

These type of pommels in thier basic shape were apparantly well known in Italy around the end of the 16th century, and seem to have influenced makers such as the Aiala's of Barcelona and Toledo (I believe Luis was son of Tomas and lived around 1566-1620, but Wagners wording is unclear p.173).
In any case they adopted the words JESUS MARIA , which was commonly used by Milanese armourers.
The reason I note that is that the faceted or grooved effect seems to have been in place with thier sword pommels around the early 17th century, and some German pommels of this time used the effect as well. Germany and Italy were key centers in arms fashion in these times, and were in many cases it seems pace setters in designs, particularly Italy it seems.

The interesting marking at the fuller terminus is of course the 'anchor' which is a device strongly favored in Spain in this application. It's symbolism is of course Christian in representation of the cross, and seems to have developed into a kind of 'sigil' in various instances with varying number of patibulum, and systems of punched lozenges among them. It seems this one corresponds in some ways with some attributed I believe to Perez, but cannot find my notes.

OK, enough of my drollery, I just wanted to add those notes to see if they might apply (your comments plz Marc) ....so pass me an eggnog and back to the frivolity !! But no duelling you guys......I have no idea what the words you guys are talking about mean in context, but be careful.

All the best guys and Happy Holidays!!!!

J.

***NNR****

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

....so pass me an eggnog and back to the frivolity !! But no duelling you guys...

Sorry to say, Jim cowboy, but there are no things like eggnogs in this side of the pond .
If you were closer, i would send you one of these "rabanadas" that my mum used to do and handed over the secret to my wife .
One thing is sure; i wouldn't submit one of those to a "taste test" between Catalunians and Puerto Ricans; then you would see what a duel is about .
Apart from that, no quarrels in my threads ... definitely
I love you guys .

.

[Jim McDougall]

Beautifully said Nando!! and back atcha!!!
What the heck is a rabanada???? and no clue what a dwell is.
Actually I'd be afraid to think what cowboys out here would put into an egg nog if they ever had such a thing Whatever it would be most likely would have an octane rating though.

All the best,
Jim

[fernando]

Ah ah ah .
Oh Jim, i can't avoid laughing with my unwanted mistracking ... while i stand on my knees
I meant duel ... the mispelling completely drove you off .
A rabanada is a local Christmas ex-libris. It is no drink, but a delicious dainty made with slices of (two days dried) bread, fried with tons of egg yolk and sugar, cinnamon and lemon scraping. You may add some honey or Port whine; not much octane though ... but i loved your guessing

[celtan]

Oh, you mean a "rebanada" (slice)...

Geez, you portuguese can't speak cristiano worth-a-darn. For a time I was trying to imagine some sort of bizarre local pastry made from rabanos (radish)...

: )

Now seriously, a rabanada sounds awfully similar to a "torreja". But when you add Oporto, it must taste much, much better. In fact, my mouth is actually watering at the thought...

And Jim, we may not have egnogg, but we have "queimadas",which is a vast improvement on the theme.

Merry Xmas to all ! (or in cristiano: "Feliz Navidad")

: )

M

Originally Posted by fernando

Ah ah ah .
Oh Jim, i can't avoid laughing with my unwanted mistracking ... while i stand on my knees
I meant duel ... the mispelling completely drove you off .
A rabanada is a local Christmas ex-libris. It is no drink, but a delicious dainty made with slices of (two days dried) bread, fried with tons of egg yolk and sugar, cinnamon and lemon scraping. You may add some honey or Port whine; not much octane though ... but i loved your guessing

[celtan]

Oopsies!

Jim, seems I inadvertently cross posted with the blade shape thread. Would you kindly relocate these posts to the correct thread?

Best regards

M