ask for more details

[Jean]

I was told by an experienced Javanese seller that fossil or old geraham has a pale yellowish colour (like Chregu's hilt specimen) as compared to fresh elephant molar which has a darker colour with brownish stripes, has anybody heard the same? I have few genuine fossil geraham samples collected in the prehistoric site of Centre Java but I would need to grind them for assessing the colour.
Jean

[A. G. Maisey]

No Jean, I have not heard this, but if I recall all the items of geraham that I've had through my hands, I'd say it is probably true.

[chregu]

Good evening together
I thank you very much for the wealth of information and suggestions.
I think the handle is made before WWI had no direct comparisons, but when I see the cracks and chips,
are not new, the wear and tear are used uniformly.
certainly it is can not be as fine as ivory carving, I find the material to the coloring still beautiful.
thanks again.
gruss Chregu

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody,

Apologies for this rather belated contribution.
This thread was brought to my attention by someone who thought that I might have something of value.
I searched through my archives and found this, which may be of interest.
I think this was made by probably the last Soenda panday (traditional craftsman) - as opposed to goeroe teupa (equivalent to poe/empoe/mpoe)- circa 1900.
Yes, the handle is rather large, barely fitting in my palm.
Geraham is a hard material to work, harder than Asian ivory. (Similarly, African elephant ivory is harder to work than Asian elephant ivory.)
No surprises about relationships between Tatar Soenda and Lampoeng, as there are those who would argue that the eastern boundary of the Soenda-Galoeh kingdom during the 15thC was Lampoeng (Lampoeng becoming part of the kingdom, a federation, through marriage of the ruling houses).

Please forgive any shortcomings.

Best,

[Alam Shah]

Hi Amuk Murugul,

Nice hilt. Looking at your ensemble, it seems that the hilt is a tad too big for the fittings.. the geraham looks more like a Palembang or Minangkabau jawa demam to me as compared to elsewhere..

Thanks for showing the pics

[A. G. Maisey]

Interesting Amuk Murugul.

Very interesting.

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

Hi Amuk Murugul,

Nice hilt. Looking at your ensemble, it seems that the hilt is a tad too big for the fittings.. the geraham looks more like a Palembang or Minangkabau jawa demam to me as compared to elsewhere..

Thanks for showing the pics

Hullo Shahrial,

I had questions in my mind about the ensemble when I held the item in my hand a few years ago. However, I remained silent, as I was there to admire it and not to express an opinion.
Unfortunately, I don't have the authority to change the ensemble. Even if I had, I would need to know its background before I'd even consider making any alterations and then decide whether such alterations would be appropriate.
BTW ..... I think we may differ about the ethnic groupings of Soematera.
To me, the main groups are Minangkabaoe, Batak and Atjeh (just..., depending on how far back one goes). As for Palembang, to me, their relationship to the Minangkabaoe is more like the Betawi in relation to the Soenda (as Palembang was essentially a Chinese port city under the command of a Chinese captain).

Best,

[Alam Shah]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo Shahrial,

I had questions in my mind about the ensemble when I held the item in my hand a few years ago. However, I remained silent, as I was there to admire it and not to express an opinion.
Unfortunately, I don't have the authority to change the ensemble. Even if I had, I would need to know its background before I'd even consider making any alterations and then decide whether such alterations would be appropriate.
BTW ..... I think we may differ about the ethnic groupings of Soematera.
To me, the main groups are Minangkabaoe, Batak and Atjeh (just..., depending on how far back one goes). As for Palembang, to me, their relationship to the Minangkabaoe is more like the Betawi in relation to the Soenda (as Palembang was essentially a Chinese port city under the command of a Chinese captain).

Best,

Hi Amuk Murugul,

Sorry if my opinion upset you.. I'm just stating an opinion, it may be true or otherwise. I'm not asking you to change anything, but merely stating what I see in this ensemble.. As for Sumatra, my knowledge is limited.. The recent exhibition in Singapore's Asian Civilisations Museum, "Sumatra: Isle of Gold", gives some pretty good idea regarding the rich cultures of Sumatra, in a nutshell. The accompanying book with the same title and another, "Sumatra: Crossroads of Cultures" are good books to read. It gives us a peek at the past with the various insights. Although not exhaustive, it's still recommended for reading. It gives us the various timelines in Sumatra's colourful history.