Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 27th February 2009, 07:44 PM   #1
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,941
Default My new keris

Hello,
here the pictures from Java from my new acquisition. It's still in Indonesia because it shall get a warangan over there.
Comments are welcome.
Regards,
sajen
Attached Images
     
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2009, 07:49 PM   #2
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,941
Default

Some more pictures!
Attached Images
    
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2009, 08:02 PM   #3
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 5,252
Default

Very nice. I look forward to seeing photos once it is washed and stained. Love the pendok on this sheath.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2009, 08:22 PM   #4
Marcokeris
Member
 
Marcokeris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 766
Default

From the pics the work done on the old hit material is , without doubt, absolutely wonderful !!!
Marcokeris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2009, 08:29 PM   #5
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 5,252
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcokeris
From the pics the work done on the old hit material is , without doubt, absolutely wonderful !!!

I agree. I don't think that this fossilized elephant molar material is particularly easy to carve. Often the carvings with this material are pretty basic. They did some nice detailing on this one.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th February 2009, 09:56 PM   #6
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,861
Default

Congrats, nice Palembang combo!

This Sumatran gonjo iras blade certainly deserves a decent stain.

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2009, 01:27 AM   #7
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,941
Default

Thank's for the comments!
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2009, 01:30 AM   #8
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,941
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Congrats, nice Palembang combo!

This Sumatran gonjo iras blade certainly deserves a decent stain.

Regards,
Kai



Hello Kai,
thank you, but I think that this is a Minangkabau keris, the pendok is typical for and also the hilt. Don't let irritate by the warangka, you can found this form also in Minangkabau area.
Regards,
sajen
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2009, 03:15 PM   #9
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,941
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcokeris
From the pics the work done on the old hit material is , without doubt, absolutely wonderful !!!



Hi Marco and also David,
agree complete with you. I am also surprised when I see first time good pictures from my friend in Indonesia!
Here the link from e-bay where you can't see this work:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...em=140301046376
Regards,
sajen

Last edited by Sajen : 28th February 2009 at 04:35 PM.
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2009, 07:47 PM   #10
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,941
Default

Hello all,
here the first pictures from Indonesia after warangan. They have done a good job.
Regards,
sajen
Attached Images
    
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2009, 08:04 PM   #11
Henk
Member
 
Henk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,171
Default

Detlef,

That looks very good indeed! I only wonder why the pesi wasn't cleaned and stained completely as usually is done.
Henk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2009, 08:15 PM   #12
kulbuntet
Member
 
kulbuntet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 159
Default

Hi Detlef,

Same question come up in my head... about the peksi. For the rest nice wash.

regards Michel
kulbuntet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th March 2009, 03:16 AM   #13
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,941
Default

Hello Henk and Michel,
I think that he hold the keris by warangan at the peksi. I have seen this when someone stained a blade. This don't will be a problem, when I received the keris I will clean the peksi in lemon-acid.
Regards,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th March 2009, 05:35 PM   #14
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,941
Default

Hello,
I get now the information why the peksi not cleaned ans stained. The handle have been so hard fixed to the peksi that the warangan process have been done with the handle and the handle wrapped with plasticfilm. Later it become more and more loose so that he can open it but too late fore the staining. He have been afraid to destroy the handle. But like I write before, it don't will be a problem to clean the peksi later.
Here a picture from the keris now.
Detlef
Attached Images
 
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th March 2009, 06:24 PM   #15
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 5,252
Default

Wow Sajen, that's really pretty. I don't think it's a big deal that the pesi didn't receive staining, but i would make sure that all the rust is removed.
Enjoy your new baby.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th March 2009, 10:50 PM   #16
asomotif
Member
 
asomotif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,987
Default

I am not a big fan of fossil mortar, but this one is definately one of the exceptions.

Very nice handle, and of course a great keris all together.

Love the pendok and the matching selut.

Gratuliere !

Willem
asomotif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th March 2009, 12:06 AM   #17
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,861
Default

Hello Sajen,

I'm glad that the blade came out as nice as expected!


Quote:
I think that this is a Minangkabau keris, the pendok is typical for and also the hilt. Don't let irritate by the warangka, you can found this form also in Minangkabau area.

Since the Minang Kabau were politically and economically well connected with Palembang / eastern Sumatra, pieces from area do pop up on the other side of the Sumatran mountain range.

I agree that we might be looking at mixed influences here:
This hilt does look Minang although most molar hilts seem to come from eastern Sumatra. The pendok type seems to show up all over Sumatra - I'm not sure this can be positively attributed to the MK.

The cross-piece does seem to be Palembang to me though (judging from the carving flow; while there's a lot of variety in shapes I also haven't seen a well-provenanced Minang cross-piece with rudder).

The blade seems more likely East Sumatran to me: bold pamor, shape, tiny greneng, and gonjo iras.

If I had to guess, I'd posit that this keris originated in Palembang and got partially refitted by a Minang owner later on.

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2009, 05:12 PM   #18
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,941
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Wow Sajen, that's really pretty. I don't think it's a big deal that the pesi didn't receive staining, but i would make sure that all the rust is removed.
Enjoy your new baby.



Thank you David,
you can be sure that I will enjoy my baby!
The rust I will remove, that don't will be a big problem.
Regards,
sajen
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2009, 05:16 PM   #19
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,941
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif
I am not a big fan of fossil mortar, but this one is definately one of the exceptions.

Very nice handle, and of course a great keris all together.

Love the pendok and the matching selut.

Gratuliere !

Willem


Thank's Willem,
it's the same to me, the most molar handles not very fine and crude carved.

All the best to you,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th March 2009, 05:32 PM   #20
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,941
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Hello Sajen,

I'm glad that the blade came out as nice as expected!



Since the Minang Kabau were politically and economically well connected with Palembang / eastern Sumatra, pieces from area do pop up on the other side of the Sumatran mountain range.

I agree that we might be looking at mixed influences here:
This hilt does look Minang although most molar hilts seem to come from eastern Sumatra. The pendok type seems to show up all over Sumatra - I'm not sure this can be positively attributed to the MK.

The cross-piece does seem to be Palembang to me though (judging from the carving flow; while there's a lot of variety in shapes I also haven't seen a well-provenanced Minang cross-piece with rudder).

The blade seems more likely East Sumatran to me: bold pamor, shape, tiny greneng, and gonjo iras.

If I had to guess, I'd posit that this keris originated in Palembang and got partially refitted by a Minang owner later on.

Regards,
Kai


Hello Kai,

you might be right that that we can see by this keris a mixed influence from two regions of Sumatra. The blade and also the wrangka shows definitely Palembang influence but I think that the pendok shows Minang character. I think that the two "horns" at the end are signs of Minagkabau influence. Also the design on the pendok is seen in Minang erea. For comparison two pictures from a Minangkabau house and the door of the same house.

Regards,
Detlef
Attached Images
  
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2011, 04:55 PM   #21
Jussi M.
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 235
Default

And up for a job well done!
Jussi M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2011, 06:12 PM   #22
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,941
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi M.
And up for a job well done!


Thank in the name of the person who have done the staining in Indonesia/Java!
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd February 2011, 11:59 PM   #23
VANDOO
(deceased)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 3,140
Smile

THE FOSSIL MOLAR CAN BE BRITTLE AND SOME IS MORE UNSTABLE THAN OTHERS MAKEING IT RISKY TO WORK. AS A RESULT MOST CARVING IS USUALLY VERY SIMPLE.
SOMEONE WENT THE EXTRA MILE ON THIS AS ITS THE BEST CARVING I HAVE SEEN USING THIS MATERIAL.
A VERY NICE KERIS BE CAREFUL WITH IT TO AVOID SHEDING TEARS
VANDOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th February 2011, 05:07 PM   #24
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 5,941
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VANDOO
THE FOSSIL MOLAR CAN BE BRITTLE AND SOME IS MORE UNSTABLE THAN OTHERS MAKEING IT RISKY TO WORK. AS A RESULT MOST CARVING IS USUALLY VERY SIMPLE.
SOMEONE WENT THE EXTRA MILE ON THIS AS ITS THE BEST CARVING I HAVE SEEN USING THIS MATERIAL.
A VERY NICE KERIS BE CAREFUL WITH IT TO AVOID SHEDING TEARS



Hi Barry,

I know how easy this material can get broken and I am very careful with this keris!

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2011, 06:13 AM   #25
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,518
Default

Interesting.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th February 2011, 09:09 PM   #26
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VANDOO
THE FOSSIL MOLAR CAN BE BRITTLE AND SOME IS MORE UNSTABLE THAN OTHERS MAKEING IT RISKY TO WORK. AS A RESULT MOST CARVING IS USUALLY VERY SIMPLE.
SOMEONE WENT THE EXTRA MILE ON THIS AS ITS THE BEST CARVING I HAVE SEEN USING THIS MATERIAL.
A VERY NICE KERIS BE CAREFUL WITH IT TO AVOID SHEDING TEARS

Oh I agree with you Barry. I have not carved but have worked with the stuff - crazy brittle and even crumbly. Yet this is great delicate carving work.

For me this just begs the question - what are the talismanic properties of this material and where can I find literature on it?
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2011, 02:25 AM   #27
DaveS
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 321
Default

Jose: I read somewhere in one of the kris books that in the "old days" molar
tooth was thought to be an antidote to poisons, especially in the middle
eastern Islamic countries. It also was a trade item coming from Russian
Siberia. Modern knifemakers here in the U.S are also starting to use it on
their custom knife handles after it is stabilized. Don't know how it would hold
up under hunting conditions I wonder if Alan knows more about this material.
Dave.
DaveS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2011, 02:55 AM   #28
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,659
Default

My understanding is that it also protected the wearer because it was made of "dragon's tooth".
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2011, 05:57 AM   #29
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,518
Default

No, sorry, I know of no myths nor beliefs of Javanese or Balinese origin that are associated with this material.

The oldest hilt of this material of which I am aware is the one in the Radya Pustaka Museum in Solo.

Scroll about three-quarters down the page:-

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/radyapustaka.html
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st March 2011, 11:00 AM   #30
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Great Midwest
Posts: 5,252
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
The oldest hilt of this material of which I am aware is the one in the Radya Pustaka Museum in Solo.

Is there an indication approximately how old this hilt in the museum is?
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 03:38 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.