Eastern Arms in Armeria Reale di Torino

M.carter · 21st June 2005, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aqtai

Beautiful swords Brian. I feel the decoration on the straight sword has more of an Iranian feel to it. I couldn't see it very clearly, but is that a simurgh beneath the hilt?

I think you know what's coming next.

I believe the museum also has a very small number of beautiful Turkish or Iranian armours, which I have only ever seen as very poor quality black and white photos. You wouldn't happen to have any pictures of them by any chance?

After some reading, it seems to me that the straight sword is almost a copy of Plate.16 in "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths". Even the gold inlay is similar.

Aqtai · 21st June 2005, 10:41 AM

Thanks B.I., much appreciated.

Lovely piece of armour with some interesting features. The small plates on the shoulders, laminated vambraces (similar to the ones on the complete Turkish armour in the Metropolitan), rather than the more usual bazu bands, and laminated lower leg defences as well, the word 'greave' just doesn't seem right somehow. I'm guessing from the style of the helmet that the armour is Ottoman?

M. Carter, I've just had a look at the sword you were referring to. Very similar, although not identical. It does have downward curved quillons and a simurgh on the upper part of the blade. The Topqapi sword is one of the "Blessed swords", the holy relics attributed to the Prophet and his companions. I think that unless the sword was redecorated later, the style of the inlay sort of rules out a date that early.

The sword in plate 21 of ISAS is also similar, I'm almost wondering if B.I.'s sword from the Armeria Reale and the 2 in the Topkapi are a particular sub-type of Islamic sword...

B.I., since this is your thread, is it OK if I post scans of the Topkapi swords for comparison? Also is there a date and provenance on the straight sword with the gold inlay?

B.I · 21st June 2005, 11:45 AM

hi aqtai,
the armour is indeed ottoman and their are many varieties in style of the armour of the period. its because of this that a few of the mannequins in the stibbert have armguards placed on the legs, as the thought then was that the arguards were not of the 'solid' plate type, but rather the small 'lamelar' plates.
although i started this post, its down to anyone participating ot steer it whichever way they want. however, there are a few examples of this early sword blade (which is of a well known type), normally rehilted in the 16th/17thC. poland (especially wavel) has a few, with its strong links with the turks. maybe this sword deserves a post on its own, as i'm sure michal (and i) can show other examples outside istanbul. i have quite a few more images from this museum so if you start a post on this particular sword, we can do it more justice.
there is a stunning example in a private collection, that has never been published and if i ever manage to get an image, i will gladly post it.

B.I · 21st June 2005, 11:47 AM

another dha

21st June 2005, 11:47 AM	#4
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	another dha Attached Images

21st June 2005, 10:41 AM	#2
Aqtai Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Merseyside, UK Posts: 222	Thanks B.I., much appreciated. Lovely piece of armour with some interesting features. The small plates on the shoulders, laminated vambraces (similar to the ones on the complete Turkish armour in the Metropolitan), rather than the more usual bazu bands, and laminated lower leg defences as well, the word 'greave' just doesn't seem right somehow. I'm guessing from the style of the helmet that the armour is Ottoman? M. Carter, I've just had a look at the sword you were referring to. Very similar, although not identical. It does have downward curved quillons and a simurgh on the upper part of the blade. The Topqapi sword is one of the "Blessed swords", the holy relics attributed to the Prophet and his companions. I think that unless the sword was redecorated later, the style of the inlay sort of rules out a date that early. The sword in plate 21 of ISAS is also similar, I'm almost wondering if B.I.'s sword from the Armeria Reale and the 2 in the Topkapi are a particular sub-type of Islamic sword... B.I., since this is your thread, is it OK if I post scans of the Topkapi swords for comparison? Also is there a date and provenance on the straight sword with the gold inlay?

21st June 2005, 11:45 AM	#3
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	hi aqtai, the armour is indeed ottoman and their are many varieties in style of the armour of the period. its because of this that a few of the mannequins in the stibbert have armguards placed on the legs, as the thought then was that the arguards were not of the 'solid' plate type, but rather the small 'lamelar' plates. although i started this post, its down to anyone participating ot steer it whichever way they want. however, there are a few examples of this early sword blade (which is of a well known type), normally rehilted in the 16th/17thC. poland (especially wavel) has a few, with its strong links with the turks. maybe this sword deserves a post on its own, as i'm sure michal (and i) can show other examples outside istanbul. i have quite a few more images from this museum so if you start a post on this particular sword, we can do it more justice. there is a stunning example in a private collection, that has never been published and if i ever manage to get an image, i will gladly post it.