Philippine weapons in Spanish museums

migueldiaz · 19th September 2010, 11:39 PM

One room in Museo Naval is dedicated to the salvaged items of the Spanish ship 'San Diego', which sank in 1600 off Luzon, after a sea battle with Dutch ships.

At the national museum of the Philippines, another room is also dedicated to the recovered artifacts of San Diego.

Anyway, the pics below are from Museo Naval. An intriguing thing was the presence of Japanese katanas. One theory thus was that Spain used Japanese mercenaries then. Yet perhaps another possibility is that some of the Filipinos who joined the Spanish military then were armed with imported katanas.

In San Buenaventura's 1613 and Ruiz's 1630 Spanish-Tagalog dictionaries, they used "katana" to refer to a sword in the Tagalog dialect. It's a loan word of course, as there's no native "katana" word in Tagalog.

But the presence of katanas in the Philippines then, and the usage of the term to refer to the common sword actually makes a lot of sense. And that's because the Philippines then has been trading with China, Japan, Siam (Thailand), etc., long before the Spaniards came.

The complete San Diego pics are HERE.

Gavin Nugent · 20th September 2010, 12:48 AM

Outstanding, thank you Lorenz.

It is amazing where our passions take us.

I certainly enjoyed the vast variety and beauty of these items pictured.

Thank you

Gav

Battara · 20th September 2010, 04:05 AM

After a closer examination, the triple twistcore kampilan looks like it once had guard that is now lost.

VANDOO · 20th September 2010, 05:08 AM

THANKS!! THESE PICTURES MAKE MY MOUTH WATER

IF I GET THE CHANCE TO VISIT THE AREA THESE MUSEUMS WILL BE ON MY LIST TO SEE. IT WOULD APPEAR THERE IS A MIX OF WEAPONS REPRESENTED FROM INDONESIA, BORNEO AND PERHAPS INDO CHINA NOTABLY THE POLEARMS WITH LARGE BLADES AND THE 3 PRONGED TIGER FORK. QUITE POSSIBLE THEY FOUND THEIR WAY THRU THE PHILIPPINES NATURALLY EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE NOT THE LOCAL FORMS AS MANY GROUPS RANGED OVER A WIDE AREA.
THE KAMPILIANS ARE VERY IMPRESSIVE AND THE BEST TWISTCORE DESIGNS I HAVE EVER SEEN. I WOULD AGREE THAT THE KAMPILIAN HAS BEEN DAMAGED AND LOST ITS HANDLE WHICH APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN REPAIRED BUT THE GAURD WAS NOT REPLACED. I HAVE A COUPLE OF KAMPILIAN WITH DAMMAGE TO THE GAURDS SO I SUSPECT THEY COULD HAVE BEEN DAMAGED OFTEN.
I NOTICE THERE ARE 2 SAWFISH SWORDS PICTURED AND THAT SOME OF THE ARROW HEADS LOOK JUST LIKE ONE OF THE FORMS ALSO USED ON ONE OF THEIR FLAMBOYANT SPEAR HEADS. CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF THEM RIGHT NOW

I MUST BE GETTING OLD.
I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN SEEING ANY GENUINE PHILIPPINE WAR CLUBS AS I KNOW NOTHING OF THEM EXCEPT THAT THEY SURELY EXHISTED BEFORE THE ARRIVAL OF METAL. LOOKING THRU THE OTHER PICTURES
I SEE QUITE A FEW CLUBS BUT MOST ARE IDENTIFIABLE AS FIJI AND SOME OF THE OTHER OCEANIC ISLANDS THAT WERE TOO FAR AWAY FOR EVEN THE EARLY PHILIPPINE MARINERS TO HAVE BROUGHT BACK NATURALLY. THERE IS EVEN A MODERN TOURIST SOUVINEER FROM THE MARQUESAS IN ONE CASE. SO I SUSPECT THEY CAME TO THE MUSEUM AS DONATIONS FROM A COLLECTOR OR WERE PURCHASED. I WONDER IF THERE ARE ANY TRUE PHILIPPINE CLUBS WITH PROVENANCE.?

kronckew · 20th September 2010, 08:47 AM

fantastic collection. will be looking at the rest of the photos.

especially noticed the moro kris with the atypical point, seem to recall us discussing one like this earlier... (extracted from photo above)

migueldiaz · 20th September 2010, 12:33 PM

Thanks for all for the comments and insights.

I went back to Museo Naval this morning, and I was able to interview the curator and the staff. Once again, they are most helpful and accommodating.

They said that all of their items that are Filipino (and the ones coming from the neighboring islands) were collected in the 19th century. They added though that it's very much possible that some of them were actually made in the 18th century.

With regard to the sawfish sword at Museo Naval, I remarked to the curator that it's probably not Filipino (though the hilt's shape certainly looks familiar). The curator said that perhaps it's really not Filipino, but the piece was collected at Sulu-Mindanao in the 18th century (thus they grouped it under the Phil. items).

I made the same remark about the Chinese halberds(?), that they are not Filipino. They remarked again that they do realize that, but the items were collected in Sulu-Mindanao, thus they grouped it under Philippines.

I was inquiring whether I can see the items in storage. They told me that they are more of the same, and many are not in good shape.

With regard to Filipino war clubs, I saw one at the storage room of Victor Balaguer museum. I'll post pics of those later.

Tomorrow I go to Toledo to see the Army Museum, which has the most collection of Filipino weapons. We will see

Sajen · 20th September 2010, 04:59 PM

Thank you for sharing the pictures and informations!

Dimasalang · 24th September 2010, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

Anyway, the pics below are from Museo Naval. An intriguing thing was the presence of Japanese katanas. One theory thus was that Spain used Japanese mercenaries then. Yet perhaps another possibility is that some of the Filipinos who joined the Spanish military then were armed with imported katanas.

In San Buenaventura's 1613 and Ruiz's 1630 Spanish-Tagalog dictionaries, they used "katana" to refer to a sword in the Tagalog dialect. It's a loan word of course, as there's no native "katana" word in Tagalog.

But the presence of katanas in the Philippines then, and the usage of the term to refer to the common sword actually makes a lot of sense. And that's because the Philippines then has been trading with China, Japan, Siam (Thailand), etc., long before the Spaniards came.

The complete San Diego pics are HERE.

Lorenz, check out "Events in the Philippine Islands"(or the original Spanish version: Sucesos de las Islas Filipinas) by Dr Antonio de Morga published in 1609...they are now released in English or Tagalog as "History of the Philippine Islands Vol I and II". Im sure you know of this book, but maybe you haven't looked in to it for the Japanese connection. For those that don't know Morga, he was a high ranking colonial official, but he is best remembered as a historian...and his book documents the history of the Philippine islands from 1493 to 1603. He also led the Spanish naval battle with the Dutch in 1600(which Lorenz mentioned previously). Jose Rizal and many historians today study his work. Morga makes mention of the Japanese in the Philippines on several hundred accounts, and some being of war. In one instance Morga speaks of one Japanese mestizo and his Japanese counterparts living in a Japanese community in Manila. They are hired men and collaborated at one time with Spanish forces. In 1594 the King of Cambodia fled to Laos after being invaded by the King of Siam(Thailand). In 1596 Luis Pérez Dasmariñas(son of Gomez) set sail for Cambodia with 3 ships consisting of Filipino, Japanese, and Spanish warriors...they planned to reconquer Cambodia for the Cambodian king. This plan failed once two of the ships reached the docks and made conflict with the residing community.
Morga also mentions he received notice of a possible invasion by Japan, but explains, due to their lack of ships and navigational skills they would never succeed. These are just bits and pieces I just looked up in the book...I myself still haven't really sat down and looked through it completely or thoroughly...I think I'll do that now. Katanas and samurai swords were possibly traded for goods in and around the Philippines, but as you can see also, there were in fact documented Japanese warriors roaming around the Philippines. Interesting don't you think...these Samurai warriors as hired men during the 15-16th century settling in the Philippines.

migueldiaz · 27th September 2010, 08:00 AM

sajen, nonoy, jose, gav, thanks for the comments.

ron, i don't have the pic of the whole design. in some museums for pieces like this, they put a mirror behind the item.

dimasalang, thanks for the comments on the samurais in the phils. i should read again morga as i missed that part

talking about phil. history, at the agustinianos' library in valladolid, spain (where museo oriental is located), i spent merely about half an hour at the library and i already found interesting titles (excerpts of some articles are below, and the entire articles are here .

i think [dimasalang] should spent at least a month there at valladolid!

migueldiaz · 27th September 2010, 08:25 AM

below are some more pics from museo naval in madrid.

the shipyard was in cavite (along manila bay), where many ships were built during the colonial period. the parao is a type of "pirate" ship that was used also in southern philippines then, i suppose.

the entire photo album is here.

migueldiaz · 27th September 2010, 09:45 AM

Another museum I saw was Museo Oriental in Valladolid (about 1 hour by train from Madrid).

I can't post the pics I took because of the museum policy. I bought their books on Phil. items, and below are sample pics from the book (the other pics are here).

migueldiaz · 27th September 2010, 09:51 AM

The last museum I saw is Museo de America, in Madrid.

Below are sample pics. Most of the items are inside a cabinet, which glass is textured(!) thus the poor pics.

All of the pics I took are here.

Battara · 27th September 2010, 04:57 PM

Once again some great pictures. Thank you for all your efforts and hard work. Love the Bagobo shield.

laEspadaAncha · 3rd October 2010, 11:04 PM

Lorenz,

I have greatly enjoyed pouring over these photos - Thank you for taking the time to document your visits and to post all the photos you have...

19th September 2010, 11:39 PM	#1
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	One room in Museo Naval is dedicated to the salvaged items of the Spanish ship 'San Diego', which sank in 1600 off Luzon, after a sea battle with Dutch ships. At the national museum of the Philippines, another room is also dedicated to the recovered artifacts of San Diego. Anyway, the pics below are from Museo Naval. An intriguing thing was the presence of Japanese katanas. One theory thus was that Spain used Japanese mercenaries then. Yet perhaps another possibility is that some of the Filipinos who joined the Spanish military then were armed with imported katanas. In San Buenaventura's 1613 and Ruiz's 1630 Spanish-Tagalog dictionaries, they used "katana" to refer to a sword in the Tagalog dialect. It's a loan word of course, as there's no native "katana" word in Tagalog. But the presence of katanas in the Philippines then, and the usage of the term to refer to the common sword actually makes a lot of sense. And that's because the Philippines then has been trading with China, Japan, Siam (Thailand), etc., long before the Spaniards came. The complete San Diego pics are HERE. Attached Images

20th September 2010, 05:08 AM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THANKS!! THESE PICTURES MAKE MY MOUTH WATER IF I GET THE CHANCE TO VISIT THE AREA THESE MUSEUMS WILL BE ON MY LIST TO SEE. IT WOULD APPEAR THERE IS A MIX OF WEAPONS REPRESENTED FROM INDONESIA, BORNEO AND PERHAPS INDO CHINA NOTABLY THE POLEARMS WITH LARGE BLADES AND THE 3 PRONGED TIGER FORK. QUITE POSSIBLE THEY FOUND THEIR WAY THRU THE PHILIPPINES NATURALLY EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE NOT THE LOCAL FORMS AS MANY GROUPS RANGED OVER A WIDE AREA. THE KAMPILIANS ARE VERY IMPRESSIVE AND THE BEST TWISTCORE DESIGNS I HAVE EVER SEEN. I WOULD AGREE THAT THE KAMPILIAN HAS BEEN DAMAGED AND LOST ITS HANDLE WHICH APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN REPAIRED BUT THE GAURD WAS NOT REPLACED. I HAVE A COUPLE OF KAMPILIAN WITH DAMMAGE TO THE GAURDS SO I SUSPECT THEY COULD HAVE BEEN DAMAGED OFTEN. I NOTICE THERE ARE 2 SAWFISH SWORDS PICTURED AND THAT SOME OF THE ARROW HEADS LOOK JUST LIKE ONE OF THE FORMS ALSO USED ON ONE OF THEIR FLAMBOYANT SPEAR HEADS. CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF THEM RIGHT NOW I MUST BE GETTING OLD. I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN SEEING ANY GENUINE PHILIPPINE WAR CLUBS AS I KNOW NOTHING OF THEM EXCEPT THAT THEY SURELY EXHISTED BEFORE THE ARRIVAL OF METAL. LOOKING THRU THE OTHER PICTURES I SEE QUITE A FEW CLUBS BUT MOST ARE IDENTIFIABLE AS FIJI AND SOME OF THE OTHER OCEANIC ISLANDS THAT WERE TOO FAR AWAY FOR EVEN THE EARLY PHILIPPINE MARINERS TO HAVE BROUGHT BACK NATURALLY. THERE IS EVEN A MODERN TOURIST SOUVINEER FROM THE MARQUESAS IN ONE CASE. SO I SUSPECT THEY CAME TO THE MUSEUM AS DONATIONS FROM A COLLECTOR OR WERE PURCHASED. I WONDER IF THERE ARE ANY TRUE PHILIPPINE CLUBS WITH PROVENANCE.? Last edited by VANDOO; 20th September 2010 at 05:28 AM.

20th September 2010, 08:47 AM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	fantastic collection. will be looking at the rest of the photos. especially noticed the moro kris with the atypical point, seem to recall us discussing one like this earlier... (extracted from photo above) Attached Images

27th September 2010, 08:00 AM	#9
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	sajen, nonoy, jose, gav, thanks for the comments. ron, i don't have the pic of the whole design. in some museums for pieces like this, they put a mirror behind the item. dimasalang, thanks for the comments on the samurais in the phils. i should read again morga as i missed that part talking about phil. history, at the agustinianos' library in valladolid, spain (where museo oriental is located), i spent merely about half an hour at the library and i already found interesting titles (excerpts of some articles are below, and the entire articles are here . i think [dimasalang] should spent at least a month there at valladolid! Attached Images

27th September 2010, 08:25 AM	#10
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	below are some more pics from museo naval in madrid. the shipyard was in cavite (along manila bay), where many ships were built during the colonial period. the parao is a type of "pirate" ship that was used also in southern philippines then, i suppose. the entire photo album is here. Attached Images

20th September 2010, 12:48 AM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Outstanding, thank you Lorenz. It is amazing where our passions take us. I certainly enjoyed the vast variety and beauty of these items pictured. Thank you Gav

20th September 2010, 04:05 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	After a closer examination, the triple twistcore kampilan looks like it once had guard that is now lost.

20th September 2010, 12:33 PM	#6
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Thanks for all for the comments and insights. I went back to Museo Naval this morning, and I was able to interview the curator and the staff. Once again, they are most helpful and accommodating. They said that all of their items that are Filipino (and the ones coming from the neighboring islands) were collected in the 19th century. They added though that it's very much possible that some of them were actually made in the 18th century. With regard to the sawfish sword at Museo Naval, I remarked to the curator that it's probably not Filipino (though the hilt's shape certainly looks familiar). The curator said that perhaps it's really not Filipino, but the piece was collected at Sulu-Mindanao in the 18th century (thus they grouped it under the Phil. items). I made the same remark about the Chinese halberds(?), that they are not Filipino. They remarked again that they do realize that, but the items were collected in Sulu-Mindanao, thus they grouped it under Philippines. I was inquiring whether I can see the items in storage. They told me that they are more of the same, and many are not in good shape. With regard to Filipino war clubs, I saw one at the storage room of Victor Balaguer museum. I'll post pics of those later. Tomorrow I go to Toledo to see the Army Museum, which has the most collection of Filipino weapons. We will see

20th September 2010, 04:59 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Thank you for sharing the pictures and informations!

27th September 2010, 09:45 AM	#11
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	Another museum I saw was Museo Oriental in Valladolid (about 1 hour by train from Madrid). I can't post the pics I took because of the museum policy. I bought their books on Phil. items, and below are sample pics from the book (the other pics are here). Attached Images

27th September 2010, 09:51 AM	#12
migueldiaz Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Manila, Phils. Posts: 1,042	The last museum I saw is Museo de America, in Madrid. Below are sample pics. Most of the items are inside a cabinet, which glass is textured(!) thus the poor pics. All of the pics I took are here. Attached Images

27th September 2010, 04:57 PM	#13
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Once again some great pictures. Thank you for all your efforts and hard work. Love the Bagobo shield.

3rd October 2010, 11:04 PM	#14
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Lorenz, I have greatly enjoyed pouring over these photos - Thank you for taking the time to document your visits and to post all the photos you have...