Where is this sheat from?

BluErf · 2nd June 2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

That sheath is definitely 100% Pattani so it looks like you have gotten yourself a composite piece with a (likely) Madura blade and hilt.

This thread though raises the very relevant connection between the North Coast of Java and the origins of the keris in the Northeast Peninsula. There is definitely a strong connection - all you have to do is scan through Karsten Jensen's book. The familial relationship is sometimes striking!

Now Detlef, all you gotta do is keep your eyes peeled for an early Pattani blade and a bangsa agung or earlier style coteng hilt.

What traits make this a Pattani sheath? We don't see any coteng sheaths like this anywhere else.

Sajen · 2nd June 2010, 10:44 PM

Hello all,

like I mentioned in my post #38 this sheat is still a great mystery for my person since my handled Pattani keris is very marginal. So my "knowledge" is taken from pictures in books and from the forum as well from other online pages. And all sheaths I have seen there have been worked in good or very good skill. But this sheath isn't executed with a good skill. I will show you what I mean in pictures separate. A second point is the used wood, it's a very light wood with a unremarkable grain and from blonde natural colour. The weight is 99 gram.

Besides from this there are two repairs. The front leaf of sampir is missing and replaced from some sort of body filler. And the badly repaired break behind the batang.
Now the comments to the pictures which shows the "mistakes" from the carving. When you look to the pic 6 in post # 38 you can see that the tulang daun are not straight. At the same pic you can see that the caping points are not in direct opposite. The carving of the mata ketiga siva are not very well carved (pic 4 & 5).
But my feeling is like Dave and Moshah mentioned that it is a Pattani sheath, look for example the tips of sampir.
But I am with BluErf, which traits let it be a Pattani sheat?

Best regards,

Detlef

BluErf · 12th June 2010, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

What traits make this a Pattani sheath? We don't see any coteng sheaths like this anywhere else.

To answer my own question, Dave and I just came across this picture of 1 very old coteng in our friend, Paul De Souza's collection, which was collected in Thailand (Bangkok). This more or less shows that Detlef's keris is a very early coteng form.

max · 12th June 2010, 08:49 AM

As you can see, my sheath as several small superfacial holls. One is still filled with. Tin ?? Or lead ?? Its only on the front side of the wrangka. I always asked myself of there was a perticuliar meaning for this. Because we are going so deep in this wrangka, maybay someone have some ideas or suggestions. I am not familair with this fenomen in java.

Sajen · 13th June 2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max

As you can see, my sheath as several small superfacial holls. One is still filled with. Tin ?? Or lead ?? Its only on the front side of the wrangka. I always asked myself of there was a perticuliar meaning for this. Because we are going so deep in this wrangka, maybay someone have some ideas or suggestions. I am not familair with this fenomen in java.

Maybe someone tried to fill the holes with body filler?

Sajen · 13th June 2010, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

To answer my own question, Dave and I just came across this picture of 1 very old coteng in our friend, Paul De Souza's collection, which was collected in Thailand (Bangkok). This more or less shows that Detlef's keris is a very early coteng form.

Hello Kai Wee,

thank you for clarify the origin of my sheat. This answer also the question from Moshah about the third eye of shiva since it look on Paul de Souza's sheath very similar.
One question: is the nose from the hilt by Paul de Souza's keris old broken or is the hilt still complete?

Now it is like Dave write in #39, all I need is a Pattani blade and a fitting hilt.

BluErf · 13th June 2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Kai Wee,

thank you for clarify the origin of my sheat. This answer also the question from Moshah about the third eye of shiva since it look on Paul de Souza's sheath very similar.
One question: is the nose from the hilt by Paul de Souza's keris old broken or is the hilt still complete?

Now it is like Dave write in #39, all I need is a Pattani blade and a fitting hilt.

The hilt has a broken nose, so we can only imagine what it looks like complete. The nose probably would not be as long as latter-day coteng hilts, or it would look aesthetically funny, imho.

Sajen · 14th June 2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

The hilt has a broken nose, so we can only imagine what it looks like complete. The nose probably would not be as long as latter-day coteng hilts, or it would look aesthetically funny, imho.

Anyway, it's a very exceptional hilt. Thank you for showing.

Moshah · 18th June 2010, 01:39 PM

Well detlef you already start searching for the blade, aren't you?

Some people say coteng will fit best with Chenok blade. I only know that the name is taken from the village in southern Thai, and supposedly it is the oldest blade ever made in Pattani keris range.

Do anybody know about this kind of blade? How it looks like?

Sajen · 21st June 2010, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moshah

Well detlef you already start searching for the blade, aren't you?

Yes, I keep my eyes open but at first I want to restore the sheat and i am very unsure if I shall replace the broken tip with wood or let it like this.

What is your opinion?

Regards,

Detlef

12th June 2010, 08:49 AM	#4
max Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 12	question As you can see, my sheath as several small superfacial holls. One is still filled with. Tin ?? Or lead ?? Its only on the front side of the wrangka. I always asked myself of there was a perticuliar meaning for this. Because we are going so deep in this wrangka, maybay someone have some ideas or suggestions. I am not familair with this fenomen in java. Attached Images

2nd June 2010, 10:44 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Hello all, like I mentioned in my post #38 this sheat is still a great mystery for my person since my handled Pattani keris is very marginal. So my "knowledge" is taken from pictures in books and from the forum as well from other online pages. And all sheaths I have seen there have been worked in good or very good skill. But this sheath isn't executed with a good skill. I will show you what I mean in pictures separate. A second point is the used wood, it's a very light wood with a unremarkable grain and from blonde natural colour. The weight is 99 gram. Besides from this there are two repairs. The front leaf of sampir is missing and replaced from some sort of body filler. And the badly repaired break behind the batang. Now the comments to the pictures which shows the "mistakes" from the carving. When you look to the pic 6 in post # 38 you can see that the tulang daun are not straight. At the same pic you can see that the caping points are not in direct opposite. The carving of the mata ketiga siva are not very well carved (pic 4 & 5). But my feeling is like Dave and Moshah mentioned that it is a Pattani sheath, look for example the tips of sampir. But I am with BluErf, which traits let it be a Pattani sheat? Best regards, Detlef

18th June 2010, 01:39 PM	#9
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	Well detlef you already start searching for the blade, aren't you? Some people say coteng will fit best with Chenok blade. I only know that the name is taken from the village in southern Thai, and supposedly it is the oldest blade ever made in Pattani keris range. Do anybody know about this kind of blade? How it looks like?