Double Edged Ginunting/Binangon/?

t_c · 9th April 2008, 07:46 AM

I picked this one up recently and I was wondering about the age of the sword (early WWII?) and where it might have been made. I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on this. The blade is 17 3/4", double edged (diamond cross-section 1 1/4" wide +-) with a 6 1/4" handle (24"OA) -- copper guard, brass ferrule, and horn handle.
Thanks,
Tom

(pics from seller, bad photo from cell - sorry no camera)

On another note...
I've been trying to learn the nomenclature of Philippine weapons by reading the old posts here, but now I just get a little chuckle from reading "it's a sundang"

I see the pieces of the puzzle now (just not the finished picture)! Thanks to those of you with personal experience in the Philippines for sharing your insights. It's been very enlightening.
Maraming Salamat!

katana · 9th April 2008, 02:19 PM

Hi Tom,
I bid on this and now I know who beat me

...I liked the blade profile and shape. The hilt has the appearance of an animals lower leg and hoof. My thoughts were that it was likely SEA...but wondered if this was perhaps European and used as a hunting hanger

Is there any evidence of lamination.....the grinding marks on the blade could be recent and the blade older than you think. The scabbard could easily be a replacement.

Regards David

josh stout · 9th April 2008, 06:24 PM

The profile of the blade reminds me of a pedang lerus but a bit stronger, like what happened to the kris when it went to the Philippines.
Josh

t_c · 9th April 2008, 06:30 PM

Hi David,
I'm thinking it's positively Philippine from the handle, scabbard and general construction - a member of the Ginunting/Binangon family (unless someone cares to correct me). I've been looking for one of these since I started Pekiti-Tirsia (FMA) almost a year ago - it's the "official" sword of that art. I don't think it's laminated - the edge looks a little different, but I've found that this can be just a trick of the light on differently polished surfaces. I might etch it just to see though. If anything, it may have an inserted edge. I would agree that the scabbard is a newer replacement.
Tom

VVV · 9th April 2008, 08:01 PM

Hi Tom,

That's a Luzon blade (sansibar or pinuti?).
Pekiti-Tirsia is originally Panay, and then relocated to Occ. Negros (both Bisayas).
But otherwise it looks like a very nice blade and it's closer to the modern Ginunting
than most old Visayan blades (that are much heavier).

Michael

kai · 9th April 2008, 08:48 PM

Hello Tom,

I bet that your Luzon blade will be nicely balanced and agile. The blade could always be older - perhaps give it an etch. Even if this is a monosteel blade, you should see a nicely hardened edge...

A traditional Ginunting has a much more tip-heavy blade which will feel differently. No worries, it is always nice to have a few blades around...

Regards,
Kai

katana · 9th April 2008, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t_c

...... I've been looking for one of these since I started Pekiti-Tirsia (FMA) almost a year ago - it's the "official" sword of that art. .....Tom

Hi Tom,
I wondered why the bid was higher than I expected... I like it alot but I'm glad (now you've explained) you got it

.... sort of

Regards

t_c · 10th April 2008, 03:43 AM

Michael,
Thanks for the info, especially on PTK - I'm still getting my history together (I'll have to bug my teacher when he gets back). I had the term "Sansibar" associated in my mind with "S" curved blades. I saw the forward curve on this and my brain said "Ginunting" - it seemed a good descriptor for communication, but I'm still sorting out all the terms.

Kai,
Oh yeah, she's beautiful to "dance" with! Very light and nimble. I've got a "philippine klewang" too (I'll post it in a few days when I can borrow a camera) that has that tip heavy feel. Definitely a different beast.

David,
I'll take good care of her for both of us! Cheers!

tom

RobT · 10th April 2008, 03:44 AM

Hi All,
I recall reading in this forum that the swelling of the hilt where it meets the ferrule, in combination with the short ferrule itself, is a design especially favored in Batangas.
Sincerely,
RobT

9th April 2008, 07:46 AM	#1
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	Double Edged Ginunting/Binangon/? I picked this one up recently and I was wondering about the age of the sword (early WWII?) and where it might have been made. I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on this. The blade is 17 3/4", double edged (diamond cross-section 1 1/4" wide +-) with a 6 1/4" handle (24"OA) -- copper guard, brass ferrule, and horn handle. Thanks, Tom (pics from seller, bad photo from cell - sorry no camera) On another note... I've been trying to learn the nomenclature of Philippine weapons by reading the old posts here, but now I just get a little chuckle from reading "it's a sundang" I see the pieces of the puzzle now (just not the finished picture)! Thanks to those of you with personal experience in the Philippines for sharing your insights. It's been very enlightening. Maraming Salamat! Attached Images

10th April 2008, 03:44 AM	#9
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 568	Batangas Hi All, I recall reading in this forum that the swelling of the hilt where it meets the ferrule, in combination with the short ferrule itself, is a design especially favored in Batangas. Sincerely, RobT

9th April 2008, 02:19 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Tom, I bid on this and now I know who beat me ...I liked the blade profile and shape. The hilt has the appearance of an animals lower leg and hoof. My thoughts were that it was likely SEA...but wondered if this was perhaps European and used as a hunting hanger Is there any evidence of lamination.....the grinding marks on the blade could be recent and the blade older than you think. The scabbard could easily be a replacement. Regards David

9th April 2008, 06:24 PM	#3
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	The profile of the blade reminds me of a pedang lerus but a bit stronger, like what happened to the kris when it went to the Philippines. Josh

9th April 2008, 06:30 PM	#4
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	Hi David, I'm thinking it's positively Philippine from the handle, scabbard and general construction - a member of the Ginunting/Binangon family (unless someone cares to correct me). I've been looking for one of these since I started Pekiti-Tirsia (FMA) almost a year ago - it's the "official" sword of that art. I don't think it's laminated - the edge looks a little different, but I've found that this can be just a trick of the light on differently polished surfaces. I might etch it just to see though. If anything, it may have an inserted edge. I would agree that the scabbard is a newer replacement. Tom

9th April 2008, 08:01 PM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi Tom, That's a Luzon blade (sansibar or pinuti?). Pekiti-Tirsia is originally Panay, and then relocated to Occ. Negros (both Bisayas). But otherwise it looks like a very nice blade and it's closer to the modern Ginunting than most old Visayan blades (that are much heavier). Michael

9th April 2008, 08:48 PM	#6
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Tom, I bet that your Luzon blade will be nicely balanced and agile. The blade could always be older - perhaps give it an etch. Even if this is a monosteel blade, you should see a nicely hardened edge... A traditional Ginunting has a much more tip-heavy blade which will feel differently. No worries, it is always nice to have a few blades around... Regards, Kai

10th April 2008, 03:43 AM	#8
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	Michael, Thanks for the info, especially on PTK - I'm still getting my history together (I'll have to bug my teacher when he gets back). I had the term "Sansibar" associated in my mind with "S" curved blades. I saw the forward curve on this and my brain said "Ginunting" - it seemed a good descriptor for communication, but I'm still sorting out all the terms. Kai, Oh yeah, she's beautiful to "dance" with! Very light and nimble. I've got a "philippine klewang" too (I'll post it in a few days when I can borrow a camera) that has that tip heavy feel. Definitely a different beast. David, I'll take good care of her for both of us! Cheers! tom