Parang Ilang Mata Bayu part 2

VVV · 21st March 2008, 02:24 PM

Unfortunately the old thread on Bayu, as well as other rare Dayak weapons like the Dohong, has been closed.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3526

But I hope to continue the discussion with these two Bayu I have acquired since then as well as the article of E Banks, The Keris Sulok or Sundang, MBRAS, August 1940.
In the article Banks brings up some change in taste of blades among different dayak tribes, like the Iban who already at that time prefered the Ilang or Duku for the traditional Niabor or Langgai Tinggang. Also he brings up that "...the Kayan and Kenyah tribe nowadays concentrates on the carving of the hilt and the decoration of the sheath rather than on the beautification of the actual sword blades." He then presents his theory that the old and scarce Kenyah Bayu might be derived from the straight Sulu Kris (Keris Sulok Raja Laut). This based on that both are double edged and some resemblance with the fretwork between the Kris and some of the other Dayak parang. He also speculates that the Bayu is the oldest Dayak Parang and that the regular Ilang is derived from this blade. So the evolution would be the straight Kris as inspiration and then the Bayu to the Dayak Parang with false edge to the Ilang.
I am not that convinced on his conclusions, seeing more resemblance with the Dayak spearblades, as well as maybe the Dohong, to the Bayu.
Another influence might be the Barong, or Pida as it's called among the Moro living on Borneo? But I haven't seen any double edged shandigans collected in Borneo.
I look forward to the opinions of the other forumites.

Michael

Dajak · 23rd March 2008, 04:16 PM

Nice old style Handle on it

Ben

VVV · 23rd March 2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dajak

Nice old style Handle on it

Ben

Thanks Ben,

Those handles are quite rare to find.
The top one however has a heavier blade and 3 brass dots along the center of the blade. Maybe that's a (less) age indicator?

Michael

Dajak · 26th March 2008, 06:14 PM

It could also an indication off heads that are taken Brass dots

And heavy blade's could also an indication but I don t now if this is with these rare blade's .

I have seen only a few .

But the Handle on the second one very old style I cannot say wich one is older .

So the best thing is sending both to me and I wll see if I can tell

Ben

asomotif · 28th March 2008, 12:13 PM

Dear Michael,

Fully agree in your opinion :

Quote:

I am not that convinced on his conclusions, seeing more resemblance with the Dayak spearblades, as well as maybe the Dohong, to the Bayu.

But that is mainly based on the infor from this forum and common sense.
Further sad enough there are not so many of these blades around.
So prices are probably far beyond the normal collectors budget.

I agree with Ben, If someone can sent me some bayu to study them, that would surely be nice

Best regards,
Willem

Mytribalworld · 28th March 2008, 08:02 PM

Problem is the bayu's which are very rare also appear in various styles and shapes.That makes a study to them not easier.Most museums has only one or if you are lucky two in their collection.But if those two are totally different the only thing in common is that they are double edged and have a spearlike blade.

I think ( no proof anywhere) that bayu's originally has there roots in the Ngadju area or at least in the south of Borneo.
On the fist one you listed Michael I think its a Ngadju type.They seems to like to design weaponery with more or less Janus style symetric handles.See also some Dohong and dohong related daggers.
Strange thing is that some bayu's has the normal mandaushape scabbards while others have a specially designed one for the double edged blade.
Well at least these two Bayu's has found their place into a collection wich like to do some serious study on them.Lets hope in the future that more Ebayers list such nice " african swords".

VVV · 29th March 2008, 01:42 PM

Thanks all for your comments!

Ben, I think it's your turn to visit Sweden.

On the brass dots I am a bit sceptical to the "cowboy counting theory"

Willem, then we are two on the Dohong/spearblade origin as a theory...

Arjan, I think so too and that the other one is more central Borneo, maybe Kalimantan/Sarawak border? And I agree on the Dohong resemblence also on the hilt style with twin dragon heads (I haven't heard about any Janus resembling god in Borneo?).
On the mandau like scabbard mine actually originally was made for a mandau when I look inside (but the fit is perfect?).

Michael

21st March 2008, 02:24 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Parang Ilang Mata Bayu part 2 Unfortunately the old thread on Bayu, as well as other rare Dayak weapons like the Dohong, has been closed. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3526 But I hope to continue the discussion with these two Bayu I have acquired since then as well as the article of E Banks, The Keris Sulok or Sundang, MBRAS, August 1940. In the article Banks brings up some change in taste of blades among different dayak tribes, like the Iban who already at that time prefered the Ilang or Duku for the traditional Niabor or Langgai Tinggang. Also he brings up that "...the Kayan and Kenyah tribe nowadays concentrates on the carving of the hilt and the decoration of the sheath rather than on the beautification of the actual sword blades." He then presents his theory that the old and scarce Kenyah Bayu might be derived from the straight Sulu Kris (Keris Sulok Raja Laut). This based on that both are double edged and some resemblance with the fretwork between the Kris and some of the other Dayak parang. He also speculates that the Bayu is the oldest Dayak Parang and that the regular Ilang is derived from this blade. So the evolution would be the straight Kris as inspiration and then the Bayu to the Dayak Parang with false edge to the Ilang. I am not that convinced on his conclusions, seeing more resemblance with the Dayak spearblades, as well as maybe the Dohong, to the Bayu. Another influence might be the Barong, or Pida as it's called among the Moro living on Borneo? But I haven't seen any double edged shandigans collected in Borneo. I look forward to the opinions of the other forumites. Michael Attached Images Last edited by VVV; 21st March 2008 at 04:07 PM. Reason: Added Barong comment

23rd March 2008, 04:16 PM	#2
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Nice old style Handle on it Ben

26th March 2008, 06:14 PM	#4
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	It could also an indication off heads that are taken Brass dots And heavy blade's could also an indication but I don t now if this is with these rare blade's . I have seen only a few . But the Handle on the second one very old style I cannot say wich one is older . So the best thing is sending both to me and I wll see if I can tell Ben

28th March 2008, 08:02 PM	#6
Mytribalworld Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 400	Problem is the bayu's which are very rare also appear in various styles and shapes.That makes a study to them not easier.Most museums has only one or if you are lucky two in their collection.But if those two are totally different the only thing in common is that they are double edged and have a spearlike blade. I think ( no proof anywhere) that bayu's originally has there roots in the Ngadju area or at least in the south of Borneo. On the fist one you listed Michael I think its a Ngadju type.They seems to like to design weaponery with more or less Janus style symetric handles.See also some Dohong and dohong related daggers. Strange thing is that some bayu's has the normal mandaushape scabbards while others have a specially designed one for the double edged blade. Well at least these two Bayu's has found their place into a collection wich like to do some serious study on them.Lets hope in the future that more Ebayers list such nice " african swords".

29th March 2008, 01:42 PM	#7
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks all for your comments! Ben, I think it's your turn to visit Sweden. On the brass dots I am a bit sceptical to the "cowboy counting theory" Willem, then we are two on the Dohong/spearblade origin as a theory... Arjan, I think so too and that the other one is more central Borneo, maybe Kalimantan/Sarawak border? And I agree on the Dohong resemblence also on the hilt style with twin dragon heads (I haven't heard about any Janus resembling god in Borneo?). On the mandau like scabbard mine actually originally was made for a mandau when I look inside (but the fit is perfect?). Michael