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Old 24th August 2007, 11:15 AM   #1
ariel
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Default "Yataghans": Louvre or fake?

Here are 2 swords from different dealers: one Scythian, another Iberian. Very similar size, blade form, handles and workmanship and the amount of red rust on the blade
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...:MEWA:IT&ih=017
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...:MEWA:IT&ih=006
I guess, Celtic provenance is more valuable than Scythian
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Old 24th August 2007, 01:46 PM   #2
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If it is anywhere from BC , should the blade be at least heavily dark patinated, prefferably with multiple layers of patina, etc????? Red rust with patches of white metal indicate artificial origin to me. As for green-patinated hilt: it is much easier to fake old patina on bronze than on steel
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Old 24th August 2007, 07:07 PM   #3
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Nonsense.
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Old 24th August 2007, 07:11 PM   #4
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Looking at an enhanced picture of the blades, they show deep pitting, the lighter areas are not clean metal...perhaps a build up of chemical salts from soil. Looks as if these were 'dug up' ........probably months after they were deliberately buried I am also assuming that 'pre-burial' the blades were chemically 'attacked' to jump start the aging process.

Who said 'gardening' was a waste of time.....I'm off to 'plant' a few swords...now, where's my spade
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Old 24th August 2007, 08:13 PM   #5
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Well, boys, this ain't no Louvre, that much we know
Now, my next question: the blades look like yataghans, but with a "bolster"-like part being organic part of the blade rather than the handle.
Have you ever encountered similar blade construction?
Do you think these blades were created specifically fot these swords( probably during the infamous Scytho-Iberian War ) or did they use truly antique Yataghan blades?
My last question: personally, I think that these swords were made by native Celtic tribes of Guanzhow Province. Any other ideas?
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Old 24th August 2007, 08:35 PM   #6
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I do not know where these come from but as sure as the sky is blue they are not ancient. Besides the fact that ancient artifacts like this would not be allowed to be excavated and exported, the modelling is rough and poor in my eye. It is rubbish and nothing to take seriously.
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Old 24th August 2007, 09:23 PM   #7
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Not only do I agree with what has been said here, but the forms are not Sythian or Celtic on the hilts. Add to that the "iron" blades would look different than they do in these pictures.

As Tim verbosly said, "Nonsense"
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Old 24th August 2007, 10:29 PM   #8
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Could these be modified and artificially aged karakulaks? They feature integral bolster construction and similar blades. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4825
There's plenty of ancient/mediaeval/whatever stuff buried and excavated in the Balkans. ebay has a wide variety of such knives sold from Bulgaria among other places.
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Old 24th August 2007, 11:37 PM   #9
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I think Manolo nailed it. The integral bolster is a typical feature of karakulaks, and these are still relatively cheap and abundant. How difficult would it be to take one such knife in poor shape and "machaira"-nize it? Not too difficult, I think - just cast a hilt in some fancy shape, such as an eagle head, age artificially and you are ready to go and take some fool's money on eBay.
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