Sudan short sword. Qama/khinjal like blade

Tim Simmons · 5th November 2006, 07:03 PM

Another thing acquired today. Copy of Persian forms? David, yes these are Mahdist pieces. Blade 39cm total 52cm.

Lew · 5th November 2006, 08:06 PM

Tim

Can you post a close up of the inscription so we can haeve it translated.

Lew

Tim Simmons · 5th November 2006, 08:13 PM

I think or hope this is the right way round and not upside down.

Lew · 6th November 2006, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I think or hope this is the right way round and not upside down.

Tim

I think it is the right way?

Tim Simmons · 6th November 2006, 06:55 PM

Fabulous, from the same workshop. Can you post pics of the whole thing.

S.Al-Anizi · 6th November 2006, 07:36 PM

Hmm, that word says "Umdurman", it could be an arabic, or an african word.

The date is in hijri, and translates to 1900 on the Gregorian calender.

Tim Simmons · 6th November 2006, 08:07 PM

That is very interesting. There was an arsenal at Omdurman. The knife I post has no date. I am happy in the believe that it is from the most active period of the Mahdist rebellion it fits very well with the other pieces I have. Omdurman would not be supplying the continueing Mahdist unrest post 1898.

Lew · 6th November 2006, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Fabulous, from the same workshop. Can you post pics of the whole thing.

Here ya go. I think the lower dagger is from the same shop due to the similar scroll work on the blade.

Lew

Tim Simmons · 6th November 2006, 08:27 PM

Thanks Lew I can smile again now

Rivkin · 8th November 2006, 12:59 AM

First of all I am not sure it is not a local invention that just by the means of similar function resembles kindjal. Second, Sudan was a part of Ottoman Empire and, despite the Sassanid claims of the opposite, had no relationship to Iranic world.
In XIXth century Sudan was very pro-Ottoman because since Muhammed Ali it became a place where circassian officers were exiled for opposing Ali or the the presence of arabs in egyptian army. During Mahdist rebellion the "government" forces clashed with Mahdist; the corner of the former was formed by so called "Mexican' veterans (i.e. the unit lead by circassians who fought in Mexico as a part of french expeditionary force). Their Ottoman loyalty was well known, so again if something it is a continuation of Ottoman kindjal-like daggers.

5th November 2006, 07:03 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Sudan short sword. Qama/khinjal like blade Another thing acquired today. Copy of Persian forms? David, yes these are Mahdist pieces. Blade 39cm total 52cm.

5th November 2006, 08:13 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	I think or hope this is the right way round and not upside down. Attached Images

5th November 2006, 08:06 PM	#2
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Tim Can you post a close up of the inscription so we can haeve it translated. Lew

6th November 2006, 06:55 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Fabulous, from the same workshop. Can you post pics of the whole thing.

6th November 2006, 07:36 PM	#6
S.Al-Anizi Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Arabia Posts: 278	Hmm, that word says "Umdurman", it could be an arabic, or an african word. The date is in hijri, and translates to 1900 on the Gregorian calender.

6th November 2006, 08:07 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	That is very interesting. There was an arsenal at Omdurman. The knife I post has no date. I am happy in the believe that it is from the most active period of the Mahdist rebellion it fits very well with the other pieces I have. Omdurman would not be supplying the continueing Mahdist unrest post 1898.

6th November 2006, 08:27 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Thanks Lew I can smile again now

8th November 2006, 12:59 AM	#10
Rivkin Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 655	First of all I am not sure it is not a local invention that just by the means of similar function resembles kindjal. Second, Sudan was a part of Ottoman Empire and, despite the Sassanid claims of the opposite, had no relationship to Iranic world. In XIXth century Sudan was very pro-Ottoman because since Muhammed Ali it became a place where circassian officers were exiled for opposing Ali or the the presence of arabs in egyptian army. During Mahdist rebellion the "government" forces clashed with Mahdist; the corner of the former was formed by so called "Mexican' veterans (i.e. the unit lead by circassians who fought in Mexico as a part of french expeditionary force). Their Ottoman loyalty was well known, so again if something it is a continuation of Ottoman kindjal-like daggers.