Patty Fergusen's Pistols

Rick · Yesterday, 05:35 PM

These sold this morning I guess it's okay to link to the auction. Elaborate fakes, or the real thing?

Read the text and decide for yourselves.

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...rest-camden-sc

M ELEY · Yesterday, 09:24 PM

Wow! Thanks for posting this auction, Rick! Hmmm. They appear to be real of the period to my inexperiened eyes, but the story? These are amazing pistols (and side dagger) in their own right, but there just isn't enough provenance for me to prove that these belonged to Ferguson. The Battle of King's Mountain was such a pivotal battle in the Revolution and it would seem that those pistols he lost when he was shot from his saddle would have been a true war trophy for someone...AND well documented. Incredibly, one of the sales letters admits that the evidence is skimpy, yet some bloke just spend $18,000 plus auction perentage plus taxes/shipping/insurance! Again, beautiful guns, but still!! Perhaps they knew something we don't or were willing to take a chance and spend many years researching them. King's Mountain isn't far from me, but I've yet to go to the battle field. One of these days...

Jim McDougall · Today, 03:15 PM

These are amazing examples! and Rick, I join Mark in thanking you for posting these incredibly important historic examples.

As always, this led me to further researching these items to learn more of the story. The Battle of Kings Mountain in South Carolina was a pivotal engagement of the Revolution fought on Oct.7, 1780. Like many battles and aspects of the Revolution, this seems lesser known except with historians and of course localized recognition.

Major Patrick Ferguson of the 71st Regiment of Foot led the Loyalist forces in what was largely a covering action for the body of Cornwallis' forces.

The Patriot forces, as a point of interest, had among them JOHN CROCKETT, the father of Davy Crockett.

Apparently in the final stages of the battle, Ferguson led a charge into the Patriot ranks and was indeed shot out of his saddle and dragged by his horse. While badly injured, he was alive, and a Patriot officer who came upon him demanded surrender.......Ferguson shot him dead with his PISTOL.
The Patriots responded shooting Ferguson, killing him. There were said to be seven bullet wounds in his body.

In one account, it is noted Ferguson leading this charge, had his sword raised as typical of these kinds of actions. Here is where the accounts get murky.
If he was wounded, on the ground, how would he have had a pistol to shoot the Patriot officer?
These pistols are large Georgian pistols, and would have been mounted in saddle buckets......not worn on his person as they are much too large.
Unless he was holding one of the pistols as he charged, and had not yet fired, how could he have shot the officer? Pretty unlikely he could reload in these circumstances.

There was resounding animosity against the Loyalists, and they were determined to give 'Tarletons quarter' (that is 'no quarter at all' after the travesties of this notorious British officer). Apparently Ferguson's body was desecrated, wrapped in ox hide and buried, unmarked. There were summary trials and hangings of captured Loyalists.

Apparently the pistols of discussion are Georgian flintlock horse pistols by Joseph Heylin, a most notable British gunmaker of 48 Cornhill, London (1757-1779) who died in 1801. While he specialized in silver mounted pistols with brass barrels, it seems many of his guns are of the 'Queen Anne' type .
There would be markings IH (Joseph Heylin) and Cornhill, London on top of the breech.

While his guns were of the highest quality, lesser grade examples are known as he was a supplier to Hudsons Bay Company of numbers of weapons.

With the provenance of these pistols, there seems to have been some contention as to veracity but having not seen those details hard to determine more. As these are most impressive weapons, it seems likely they would have been taken from the field as suggested as trophies, but by whom and how did they end up with those in the chain of custody.?

Regardless of those matters, there is no doubt of their pedigree as far as from this maker. As always, the 'story' inflates the value accordingly.

For me what is intriguing is that curious knife, which reminds me of a more modern trench knife, but with the elegance of a French small sword.

References:
"Georgian Pistols", Norman Dixon (p.44-47)
"Gunmakers of London 1350-1850", Howard Blackmore,

Jim McDougall · Today, 03:37 PM

In another account, it seems Ferguson was approached by a Patriot officer presumably outside any sort of action in the moment and when he demanded Ferguson surrender, in defiance Ferguson shot and killed him. So by that account, the use of one of his pistols is in accord.

It also appears that Ferguson was quite a firearms enthusiast, and designed the FERGUSON RIFLE, one of the earliest designs for a breech loading refile as far as British context.

PS: wish I could get images of these pistols from the auction.....anybody more tech savvy?

Yesterday, 05:35 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,363	Patty Fergusen's Pistols These sold this morning I guess it's okay to link to the auction. Elaborate fakes, or the real thing? Read the text and decide for yourselves. https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...rest-camden-sc

Today, 03:15 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,558	These are amazing examples! and Rick, I join Mark in thanking you for posting these incredibly important historic examples. As always, this led me to further researching these items to learn more of the story. The Battle of Kings Mountain in South Carolina was a pivotal engagement of the Revolution fought on Oct.7, 1780. Like many battles and aspects of the Revolution, this seems lesser known except with historians and of course localized recognition. Major Patrick Ferguson of the 71st Regiment of Foot led the Loyalist forces in what was largely a covering action for the body of Cornwallis' forces. The Patriot forces, as a point of interest, had among them JOHN CROCKETT, the father of Davy Crockett. Apparently in the final stages of the battle, Ferguson led a charge into the Patriot ranks and was indeed shot out of his saddle and dragged by his horse. While badly injured, he was alive, and a Patriot officer who came upon him demanded surrender.......Ferguson shot him dead with his PISTOL. The Patriots responded shooting Ferguson, killing him. There were said to be seven bullet wounds in his body. In one account, it is noted Ferguson leading this charge, had his sword raised as typical of these kinds of actions. Here is where the accounts get murky. If he was wounded, on the ground, how would he have had a pistol to shoot the Patriot officer? These pistols are large Georgian pistols, and would have been mounted in saddle buckets......not worn on his person as they are much too large. Unless he was holding one of the pistols as he charged, and had not yet fired, how could he have shot the officer? Pretty unlikely he could reload in these circumstances. There was resounding animosity against the Loyalists, and they were determined to give 'Tarletons quarter' (that is 'no quarter at all' after the travesties of this notorious British officer). Apparently Ferguson's body was desecrated, wrapped in ox hide and buried, unmarked. There were summary trials and hangings of captured Loyalists. Apparently the pistols of discussion are Georgian flintlock horse pistols by Joseph Heylin, a most notable British gunmaker of 48 Cornhill, London (1757-1779) who died in 1801. While he specialized in silver mounted pistols with brass barrels, it seems many of his guns are of the 'Queen Anne' type . There would be markings IH (Joseph Heylin) and Cornhill, London on top of the breech. While his guns were of the highest quality, lesser grade examples are known as he was a supplier to Hudsons Bay Company of numbers of weapons. With the provenance of these pistols, there seems to have been some contention as to veracity but having not seen those details hard to determine more. As these are most impressive weapons, it seems likely they would have been taken from the field as suggested as trophies, but by whom and how did they end up with those in the chain of custody.? Regardless of those matters, there is no doubt of their pedigree as far as from this maker. As always, the 'story' inflates the value accordingly. For me what is intriguing is that curious knife, which reminds me of a more modern trench knife, but with the elegance of a French small sword. References: "Georgian Pistols", Norman Dixon (p.44-47) "Gunmakers of London 1350-1850", Howard Blackmore, Attached Images

Today, 03:37 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,558	addendum In another account, it seems Ferguson was approached by a Patriot officer presumably outside any sort of action in the moment and when he demanded Ferguson surrender, in defiance Ferguson shot and killed him. So by that account, the use of one of his pistols is in accord. It also appears that Ferguson was quite a firearms enthusiast, and designed the FERGUSON RIFLE, one of the earliest designs for a breech loading refile as far as British context. PS: wish I could get images of these pistols from the auction.....anybody more tech savvy? Attached Images

Yesterday, 09:24 PM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,186	Wow! Thanks for posting this auction, Rick! Hmmm. They appear to be real of the period to my inexperiened eyes, but the story? These are amazing pistols (and side dagger) in their own right, but there just isn't enough provenance for me to prove that these belonged to Ferguson. The Battle of King's Mountain was such a pivotal battle in the Revolution and it would seem that those pistols he lost when he was shot from his saddle would have been a true war trophy for someone...AND well documented. Incredibly, one of the sales letters admits that the evidence is skimpy, yet some bloke just spend $18,000 plus auction perentage plus taxes/shipping/insurance! Again, beautiful guns, but still!! Perhaps they knew something we don't or were willing to take a chance and spend many years researching them. King's Mountain isn't far from me, but I've yet to go to the battle field. One of these days...