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Old 14th January 2018, 10:46 PM   #1
Ian
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Default Indonesian terms for these two

Until today I would quite happily have called the top one a Malay kelewang and the bottom one a parang ginah. These are terms I can find in Stone's Glossary ...

However, I'm going through Gardner's Keris and Other Malay Weapons today and see that he has these two shown in Figure 53, p. 60, where he identifies the top one as golok jambu and the lower one as parang jengkok. Now I don't want to start a "name game" about which is right or wrong (BTW, Stone is often wrong with his names), but can our Indonesian experts tell me what the consensus is with regard to naming these two weapons?

Thanks guys.

Ian.

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Old 15th January 2018, 06:41 AM   #2
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These two specimens seem to eerily remind me of a Panabas....
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Old 15th January 2018, 08:26 AM   #3
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Hi Ian,

both are not Indonesian but Malay in origin. In "Spirit Of Wood" is the top one described as "Kelewang" and the one in down is either a "Parang Kelantan" or a "Anak Wali" from Pattani, I am not able to see the different, see attached picture.
Both blades will be laminated, so a polish and etch would be a good idea. Both weapons are rather rare and seldom seen.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 15th January 2018, 04:16 PM   #5
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Detlef:

Thank you very much for your helpful comments and the links to other information here.

Yes, I was aware that these two are from what is now Malaysia. My question was really about their appearance in Gardner's book on Indonesian weapons and the terms he used to describe them, which I had not seen before. It occurred to me that these weapons may have some place in Indonesian weaponry as well, where they could have their own descriptors. That's why I titled the thread "Indonesian terms for these two," because it appeared that they were called something different in the Indonesian use of them. Sorry if that was unclear.

The use of the terms parang kelantan and parang pattani are helpful in identifying the geographic origins of these, and kelewang (klewang) is a useful descriptor for that blade type.

Appreciate the help, Detlef.

Ian.
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Old 15th January 2018, 04:43 PM   #6
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Ian,

it will be like so many times, it could be that a sword get called in one village different as in the next village.

I would be happy with the term kelewang for the upper one and with parang ginah or parang jengkok for the bottom one, a term I've heard and read before, most probable by Gardener. But like you see when you search more there arise the next name, in Spirit Of Wood it's called anak wali (children custodian/free translation).

Best,
Detlef
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Old 15th January 2018, 04:50 PM   #7
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Thanks Detlef.

I do have a couple more--letter openers, that is. The top one measures 8.5 inches and the bottom 10 inches in length. They are both silver-plated with horn hilts, and were a gift from a business associate 20 years ago.

Ian.
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Old 17th January 2018, 12:48 PM   #8
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Hello Ian,

Quote:
Until today I would quite happily have called the top one a Malay kelewang and the bottom one a parang ginah.

I agree with the anak wali / parang ginah notion. Based on the recurved tip of the blade, it might be Pattani - however, there seems to be quite some overlap/variability and I believe we need to be cautious with our working hypotheses.


The klewang is not from the northern Malay regions. The cross-section of the blade is not triangular, isn't it?

I'd suggest that it originates from the Straits region or neighbouring Malay communities. The hilt seems to be based on one of the common sewar hilt types. (It might be a later replacement though...)

Regards,
Kai
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Old 17th January 2018, 01:03 PM   #9
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Hello Ian,

Quote:
I'm going through Gardner's Keris and Other Malay Weapons today and see that he has these two shown in Figure 53, p. 60, where he identifies the top one as golok jambu and the lower one as parang jengkok.

AFAIK, jambu/jambul merely refers to a protrusion/spike - it's just a description, not a proper name.

Regards,
Kai
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Old 17th January 2018, 02:55 PM   #10
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I also have a weapon from the same family but I never knew the name
In the Detlef link I saw things looking similar but still quite different for the blade.
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Old 17th January 2018, 05:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
...
The klewang is not from the northern Malay regions. The cross-section of the blade is not triangular, isn't it?

I'd suggest that it originates from the Straits region or neighbouring Malay communities. The hilt seems to be based on one of the common sewar hilt types. (It might be a later replacement though...)

Regards,
Kai
Hi Kai,

The klewang is a heavy-bladed piece, with thickness of the spine just in front of the hilt of a little more than 5/8 inch. The blade cross section is a wedge shape with a smooth transition from the heavy spine to the cutting edge and from the hilt to the tip.

Ian
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Old 18th January 2018, 12:00 PM   #12
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Hello Ian,

Quote:
The klewang is a heavy-bladed piece, with thickness of the spine just in front of the hilt of a little more than 5/8 inch. The blade cross section is a wedge shape with a smooth transition from the heavy spine to the cutting edge and from the hilt to the tip.

That sounds more like it, indeed. Could you please post close-ups of the base near the hilt?

Regards,
Kai
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Old 18th January 2018, 12:09 PM   #13
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Hello SÚverin,

Quote:
I also have a weapon from the same family but I never knew the name
In the Detlef link I saw things looking similar but still quite different for the blade.

What part of the blade is sharpened in your example - only the larger concave area?

It looks pretty much like a billhook and similar blades are widely utilized as tools. It will be tough to link this to a specific origin, I guess...

Regards,
Kai
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Old 18th January 2018, 01:14 PM   #14
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The sharpest part and the meter side and all the rounded part of the blade.
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Old 19th January 2018, 06:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Hello Ian,


That sounds more like it, indeed. Could you please post close-ups of the base near the hilt?

Regards,
Kai
Hi Kai:

Unfortunately my swords are packed for an international move. Movers come next week and those two are buried deep in one of the boxes.

Ian.
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