Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 14th January 2018, 03:59 AM   #1
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Little House on the Prairie
Posts: 2,220
Default Middle Eastern knife (?)

Another one I need help to pin down.

I acquired this knife at an antiques fair during a trip to London in 2000. The dealer said it was Middle Eastern and WWII vintage. I saw a well made knife with a good blade, nice metal sheath and clean hilt--and I talked him down to 14 pounds. I think the sheath is silver plated (no marks). The blade is single edged with a false edge along the distal half of the blade. The spine of the blade is on the side where the small quillion of the guard turns down towards the blade. The hilt is a mix of materials, with the grip being bone. There is a grooved pommel that fits the thumb for a stabbing blow.

Overall length = 9.5 inches. I like the feel of this attractive looking knife. The back of the scabbard has two rings near the throat for some type of suspension mechanism.

I was thinking it may be Syrian, Lebanese or Jordanian, but I would like to hear from someone who is far more expert on these than I am.

Ian

.
Attached Images
        
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2018, 07:23 AM   #2
Bob A
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 144
Default

It's a handsome package overall, and priced delightfully.

While it's far from my area of interest (to say nothing of what passes for my "expertise,") my first thought was Spanish. Second thought didn't vary much.
Bob A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2018, 09:07 AM   #3
corrado26
Member
 
corrado26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany
Posts: 471
Default

The concave end of the pommel reminds me on the famous French daggers of "Les Belles de Nuits".
corrado26
Attached Images
   
corrado26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2018, 09:09 AM   #4
motan
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jerusalem
Posts: 148
Default

Hi Ian,
It dagger is almost certainly Lebanese. The general type could be either Syrian or Lebanese (not Jordanian), This type of scabbard is common in both (see pic 1). However, this shape of pommel you call thumb rest is common in a certain types of Lebanese daggers (see third from left in pic 2) and the presence of a guard is common in Lebanese daggers, but mostly absent in Syrian ones. The use of solid bone and the way the hilt tapers to a narrow metal part towards the blade is also typical of Lebanon.
This type of dagger is usually seen as a presentation piece and the scabbard is often cast and coated, rather than chiseled and plated. I can not say if that is the case with yours, but it is a special and high quality example of this type (though probably not very old).
Eytan
Attached Images
  
motan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2018, 09:14 AM   #5
Kubur
Member
 
Kubur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,146
Default

I confirm what Eytan wrote about the scabbard.
Typical of souvenirs from the French mandate era and area...
But I'm not so sure about the dagger, may be a prostitute dagger as mentionned previously...
The problem is the flat blade, it should be a triangular stilleto type blade...

Kubur
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2018, 03:34 PM   #6
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Little House on the Prairie
Posts: 2,220
Default

Gents,

Thanks to you all for your thoughtful comments. Much appreciated!

So Lebanese, being a French influenced piece from a former mandate area. Very interesting. Later today I will try to show more detail of the blade. It is not double-edged, but has a substantial false edge that is not sharpened, which Kubur thinks is unusual so I will get better pictures for the archives.

I must admit that the eye appeal of this knife and scabbard, plus the price, were deciding factors for me in acquiring this one. The Middle East is not my area of focus (I can't afford to explore the knives of every corner of the world) but I do appreciate a pretty face from wherever it may be.

Ian.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th January 2018, 03:42 PM   #7
thinreadline
Member
 
thinreadline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wirral
Posts: 940
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
Gents,

Thanks to you all for your thoughtful comments. Much appreciated!

So Lebanese, being a French influenced piece from a former mandate area. Very interesting. Later today I will try to show more detail of the blade. It is not double-edged, but has a substantial false edge that is not sharpened which Kubur thinks is unusual so I will get better pictures for the archives.

I must admit that the eye appeal of this knife and scabbard, plus the price, were deciding factors for me in acquiring this one. The Middle East is not my area of focus (I can't afford to explore the knives of every corner of the world) but I do appreciate a pretty face from wherever it may be.

Ian.


It ss a very good looking knife Ian and I think you did very well indeed to buy anything in London for 14 , including a cup of coffee !
thinreadline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2018, 06:16 PM   #8
Kubur
Member
 
Kubur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,146
Default

Sometimes a picture is better than words...
Please note that the dagger is older than the scabbard but came with it.
Attached Images
 
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2018, 06:40 PM   #9
LJ
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 80
Default

Does the Arabic inscription - which seems to read the same on both scabbards - give any indication of the origin ?
LJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2018, 07:18 PM   #10
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Little House on the Prairie
Posts: 2,220
Default

Kubur,

Your sheath looks identical to the one I posted. Should be more of these around, and I hope that folks can post more examples. Where was the knife from that accompanied the sheath?

Ian
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th January 2018, 10:34 PM   #11
Kubur
Member
 
Kubur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
Kubur,

Your sheath looks identical to the one I posted. Should be more of these around, and I hope that folks can post more examples. Where was the knife from that accompanied the sheath?

Ian


Hi Ian,

These three posts will give you some precious answers.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=magdali
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=magdali
and for you this one in particular
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ghlight=magdali
Kubur is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:22 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.