an old keris tok chu..but is it from the master?

Green · 8th January 2018, 09:57 PM

There are plenty of keris claimed to be tok chu or tok chu style around and one can easily commission to make copies of tok chu style blades of various sizes over here in Kelantan.

I just bought this keris which looks quite old to me with badly damaged portion on one side . The workmanship did not look too refined to my untrained eyes but do show tok chu characteristics. I'm wondering if this came from the old master himself or just a copy made around his time? the handle is a mix and match and did not come with the blade.

David · 9th January 2018, 01:23 AM

Green, this link may or may not help you with your question.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=tokchu
I am not at all convinced that anyone can really answer your question though. However, considering that you don't find the level of quality to be particularly high on this keris you may have answered your own question.

alexish · 9th January 2018, 01:56 AM

I have heard some old stories of the Genuine Tok Chu being less magnetic compared to other kerises

I am not sure how true is this story?

Maybe you can use a magnet to test your tok chu compared to other kerises?

Of cause, being made of some kind of steel, it would still be magnetic, but its level of magnetism would be similar to stainless steel, which is less magnetic than conventional high carbon steel.

Maybe try to use the old lodestone magnet, rather than the modern magnet.

Green · 9th January 2018, 05:14 AM

Thanks David for the link. Since I now know both Che gu Nasir and Ahmad Zhaini who are both well respected malay/patani keris experts... i may show this keris to them for their opinion. My guess is it is a tok chu style keris made for common people may be early 20th century....

Alexish;

that's the first time I heard about magnetic charateristics to identify tok chu keris. Do you know where idea this come from?

alexish · 9th January 2018, 08:38 AM

Alexish;

that's the first time I heard about magnetic charateristics to identify tok chu keris. Do you know where idea this come from?[/QUOTE]

I actually got this idea from a keris dealer in Singapore (I don't want to name him). We were discussing about Tok Chu keris together with some other collectors/customers, and one of them brought up the subject of magnetism. Then we tried to test some old Tok Chu keris and other kerises with a compass. It appeared that the old Tok Chu kerises had less magnetsim compared to other kerises. Why don't you test and tell me the result?

David · 9th January 2018, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexish

Alexish;
that's the first time I heard about magnetic charateristics to identify tok chu keris. Do you know where idea this come from?

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexish

I actually got this idea from a keris dealer in Singapore (I don't want to name him). We were discussing about Tok Chu keris together with some other collectors/customers, and one of them brought up the subject of magnetism. Then we tried to test some old Tok Chu keris and other kerises with a compass. It appeared that the old Tok Chu kerises had less magnetsim compared to other kerises. Why don't you test and tell me the result?

Many old keris i have collected over the years have displayed weak magnetic fields when brought near a compass. Then i touch them to a powerful magnet and their magnetic fields are instantly revitalized and strong again. I have some serious doubts that this method would be conclusive to determining whether a blade was actually made by Tok Chu or not.
Green, from the looks of your blade i would image it is either quite a bit older than early 20th century or it was intentionally aged. But the wear looks genuine. I'm not sure that actual age will confirm it to be definitely made by Tok Chu either. With the stories of Tok Chu we are dealing a lot with myth and legend. I am sure there are truths that stand behind the legend, but i am afraid that getting to them at this point in time can be quite difficult. The best thing you can probably do is ask yourself, does this look like the work of a renown and legendary keris master. Compare it to accepted Tok Chu keris of a similar form and make your own judgement. Though i would be curious what your keris ahli friends have to say on the matter.

Shieh · 10th January 2018, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green

Thanks David for the link. Since I now know both Che gu Nasir and Ahmad Zhaini who are both well respected malay/patani keris experts... i may show this keris to them for their opinion. My guess is it is a tok chu style keris made for common people may be early 20th century....

Hi Green and everyone here in this forum. I'm Shieh from Malaysia, newly admitted member. I look forward to learn from and share with my fellow Keris enthusiasts here (it'll be more of the former rather than the latter I'm afraid).

Green, the Che'gu Nasir you mentioned is the Silat and weapons master from Kota Bharu?

8th January 2018, 09:57 PM	#1
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 325	an old keris tok chu..but is it from the master? There are plenty of keris claimed to be tok chu or tok chu style around and one can easily commission to make copies of tok chu style blades of various sizes over here in Kelantan. I just bought this keris which looks quite old to me with badly damaged portion on one side . The workmanship did not look too refined to my untrained eyes but do show tok chu characteristics. I'm wondering if this came from the old master himself or just a copy made around his time? the handle is a mix and match and did not come with the blade. Attached Images

9th January 2018, 01:56 AM	#3
alexish Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 127	Real Tok Chu - Less Magnetic I have heard some old stories of the Genuine Tok Chu being less magnetic compared to other kerises I am not sure how true is this story? Maybe you can use a magnet to test your tok chu compared to other kerises? Of cause, being made of some kind of steel, it would still be magnetic, but its level of magnetism would be similar to stainless steel, which is less magnetic than conventional high carbon steel. Maybe try to use the old lodestone magnet, rather than the modern magnet.

9th January 2018, 01:23 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	Green, this link may or may not help you with your question. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=tokchu I am not at all convinced that anyone can really answer your question though. However, considering that you don't find the level of quality to be particularly high on this keris you may have answered your own question.

9th January 2018, 05:14 AM	#4
Green Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Malaysia Posts: 325	Thanks David for the link. Since I now know both Che gu Nasir and Ahmad Zhaini who are both well respected malay/patani keris experts... i may show this keris to them for their opinion. My guess is it is a tok chu style keris made for common people may be early 20th century.... Alexish; that's the first time I heard about magnetic charateristics to identify tok chu keris. Do you know where idea this come from?

9th January 2018, 08:38 AM	#5
alexish Member Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 127	Alexish; that's the first time I heard about magnetic charateristics to identify tok chu keris. Do you know where idea this come from?[/QUOTE] I actually got this idea from a keris dealer in Singapore (I don't want to name him). We were discussing about Tok Chu keris together with some other collectors/customers, and one of them brought up the subject of magnetism. Then we tried to test some old Tok Chu keris and other kerises with a compass. It appeared that the old Tok Chu kerises had less magnetsim compared to other kerises. Why don't you test and tell me the result?