Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 13th December 2017, 05:07 PM   #1
kahnjar1
Member
 
kahnjar1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CHRISTCHURCH, NEW ZEALAND (RISING FROM THE RUBBLE)
Posts: 2,244
Default North African "Banjo" Flask for comment

Just arrived in time for Christmas is this "banjo" shaped flask described by seller as "Moroccan". Certainly has features from there, but is it?
Top to bottom 21cm (8 1/4") and the "banjo" shaped base is 11.5cm (4 1/2") across.
Made of brass,copper and with silver strip. The spout is bone.
The body has decoration of fish and a snake, which is something I have seen elsewhere, but can not place it. Hopefully one of our Members can help with that.
All comments welcome.
Stu
Attached Images
   
kahnjar1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2017, 05:28 PM   #2
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury
 
fernando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 6,688
Default

Hi Stu,
If it is Moroccan, will certainly be an 'atypical' work; starting by the fact that the Moroccan symbol (flag) is a five pointed star, whereas this one is a six pointed one, a rather distinct representation.
Just saying ... .
fernando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2017, 07:39 PM   #3
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,103
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fernando
Hi Stu,
If it is Moroccan, will certainly be an 'atypical' work; starting by the fact that the Moroccan symbol (flag) is a five pointed star, whereas this one is a six pointed one, a rather distinct representation.
Just saying ... .


Hello Fernando,

I wouldn't be so sure about the six pointed star. I have seen it in many certainly Islamic works like Turkish yatagans or Syrian saifs, as it is a rather traditional Islamic symbol as well (see link below).

https://starofdavidsite.wordpress.c...david-in-islam/
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2017, 07:47 PM   #4
colin henshaw
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,182
Default

I believe that the Moroccan flag up to 1915 incorporated a star with six points, (Solomon's Seal).
colin henshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2017, 05:05 AM   #5
kahnjar1
Member
 
kahnjar1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CHRISTCHURCH, NEW ZEALAND (RISING FROM THE RUBBLE)
Posts: 2,244
Default

Thanks for the comments above. I was a bit hesitant about describing the star as the Star of David, as it is (usually) related to the Jewish Faith. As has been pointed out though, it also appears widely in Islam and as a matter of interest was/is also found on Wilkinson swords.
What I am most interested in finding out is the association of the fish and snake symbals.
Stu
kahnjar1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2017, 08:29 AM   #6
colin henshaw
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,182
Default

The snake/serpent symbol is sometimes considered as protection against the "evil eye". The two fishes are a sign of the zodiac (Pisces). The fish was also an early Christian symbol.

However, I don't know if these meanings are valid with regard to your powder flask...
colin henshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th December 2017, 03:30 PM   #7
Oliver Pinchot
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 313
Default

In an Islamic context, the six-pointed star is referred to as the Seal of Solomon.
Fish, singly or in groups, were a sign of potency amongst many Asian groups, including pre-Islamic Turkic and Indian peoples. The snake, most commonly found in Persian art, represents the skills of a warrior (i.e. the ability to strike quickly.)

The form, workmanship and decoration of this flask imply a 20th century, likely post-colonial, date.
Oliver Pinchot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th December 2017, 09:45 AM   #8
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,318
Default

Hi Stu.

The curious shape, and the mix of symbols (per Oliver's mention) on this flask make it difficult to pinpoint it's origin. Honestly, I have no idea. But it is certainly attractive looking, even if 20th Century, which I'm confident it is. I would probably have picked this one up myself. Congrats.

Rick
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th December 2017, 12:52 PM   #9
Oliver Pinchot
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 313
Default

Sorry, I thought that had been established. It is certainly Moroccan.
Oliver Pinchot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th December 2017, 06:09 PM   #10
kahnjar1
Member
 
kahnjar1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CHRISTCHURCH, NEW ZEALAND (RISING FROM THE RUBBLE)
Posts: 2,244
Default

Thank you Gentlemen for the comments.
Yes I agree that it is indeed 20th century as a lot of Moroccan flasks currently being sold appear to be.
Stu
kahnjar1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:31 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.