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Old 10th September 2017, 07:04 AM   #1
alexish
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Default Javanese Cirebon Rajamala Coteng-like keris hilt

I have always been curious about the origin of the coteng form Thailand. Coould it be inspired by the Rajamala hilt form Cirebon Java? I enclose an old example of a Rajamala hilt which strongly resembles a Coteng.
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Old 10th September 2017, 08:23 PM   #2
Sajen
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Hi Alexish,

very good possible and I think that this was discussed here before and I think that others like Kerner has noticed this resemblance before when I remember correct.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 11th September 2017, 09:27 PM   #3
David
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Hi Alexish,

very good possible and I think that this was discussed here before and I think that others like Kerner has noticed this resemblance before when I remember correct.

Regards,
Detlef

Yes, this has been discussed here before. If i am not mistaken Shahrial did some comparisons on these hilt forms some time ago. I'll try to find that thread.
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Old Yesterday, 02:33 PM   #4
alexish
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Default Another example

I hereby enclose another example of a Cirebon/Tegal Rajamala handle.
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Old Yesterday, 03:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexish
I hereby enclose another example of a Cirebon/Tegal Rajamala handle.


Sorry Alexish,

this isn't a Tegal Rayamala hilt, it look like Sumatran hilt with some Malay features to my eyes or a very unusual Coteng hilt.
Here a hilt from my own collection.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old Yesterday, 04:25 PM   #6
David
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexish
I hereby enclose another example of a Cirebon/Tegal Rajamala handle.

To my eyes i would consider this a coteng hilt. Like Sajen, i also do not think it originates in Cirebon.
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Old Yesterday, 10:38 PM   #7
kai
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Question

Sorry to disagree, this isn't any genuine coteng hilt; I also don't see any features that suggest a Sumatran origin.

This looks like rather poor, later craftsmanship to me. I'd guess at a maker from Java/Madura...

Regards,
Kai
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Old Yesterday, 11:15 PM   #8
David
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Sorry to disagree, this isn't any genuine coteng hilt; I also don't see any features that suggest a Sumatran origin.

This looks like rather poor, later craftsmanship to me. I'd guess at a maker from Java/Madura...

Regards,
Kai

Kai, you may well be right, but you are not necessarily disagreeing with me. I should have been clearer. When i said i would identify this as a coteng hilt i was not considering whether or not it was an old original or a recent copy. I was referring more to the style of hilt. Frankly i don't know enough about coteng hilts to determine the age of this hilt or exact origin, but the elements of the hilt were clearly designed it appear as a coteng hilt might, especially around the mouth, eyes and nose. What i was most trying to debate was that i do not think this is an example of a Cirebon hilt as Alexish has suggested.
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Old Yesterday, 11:39 PM   #9
A. G. Maisey
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I know very little about cotengs, I know a little bit about North Jawa.

In my opinion this is not a hilt from Cirebon, nor from the Pesisir in general.

Workmanship looks fairly crude.

I feel that it has been carved from a light, rather soft wood and stained or lacquered, in which case we might be looking at something from the 1970's-1990's.

I have no idea at all where it might be from.
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Old Today, 06:55 PM   #10
Sajen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Kai, you may well be right, but you are not necessarily disagreeing with me. I should have been clearer. When i said i would identify this as a coteng hilt i was not considering whether or not it was an old original or a recent copy. I was referring more to the style of hilt. Frankly i don't know enough about coteng hilts to determine the age of this hilt or exact origin, but the elements of the hilt were clearly designed it appear as a coteng hilt might, especially around the mouth, eyes and nose. What i was most trying to debate was that i do not think this is an example of a Cirebon hilt as Alexish has suggested.


The same I can say about my comment, I only want to state that it isn't a hilt from Tegal. But have to agree about age and craftsmanship with Kai and Alan.
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Old Today, 08:29 PM   #11
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I agree with others but would consider South Sumatra (Lampung) as the most probable origin or at least a possible one.
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