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Old 27th April 2017, 06:19 AM   #1
kayoba84
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Default Old Tajung Keris(es?)

Good day all. I would like to share a few pics of old Tajong hilts and keris(es? is there such a word for plural of keris?)

These are part of a larger collection and have been kept for 20 - 30 years, gathered from various South Siam locations.

Enjoy.
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Old 27th April 2017, 08:36 PM   #2
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Impressive collection, thanks! I love the hilts especially.
Regards
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Old 27th April 2017, 11:54 PM   #3
Gavin Nugent
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These are nice Keris, I've a few here myself . Thanks for sharing.

Question, why the Bugis Pendokok? I am aware of a similar Patani pendokok from my own collections (but not found on Tajong), but I do not see this design amongst these?

Perhaps you can tell us more about the design elements of each province that makes these keris so interesting? Perhaps some or all have a long well established regional provenance which reflects in the carvings?

Gavin
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Old 28th April 2017, 12:29 AM   #4
A. G. Maisey
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Pretty impressive.

In Indonesian and Malay the plural of 'keris' is "keris-keris", or in the old form "keris2".

But we're using English here so I reckon "kerises" is just fine.

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Old 28th April 2017, 03:11 PM   #5
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NICE collection !!
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Old 28th April 2017, 04:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
In Indonesian and Malay the plural of 'keris' is "keris-keris", or in the old form "keris2".

But we're using English here so I reckon "kerises" is just fine.

I think Alan is probably correct here since he knows much more about Indonesian languages than i do, but in English i have always just used "keris" as the plural of keris much the same way that moose, sheep or shrimp are the same both singularly and plural.
A fine collection of keris tajong indeed. Never found the right one at the right price and since they are a bit outside my usual interest in keris other thing have taken priority. It does seem to me that the focus of interest for those who collect these is far more directed on the dress (specifically the hilts) than the blades themselves.
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Old 28th April 2017, 07:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
I think Alan is probably correct here since he knows much more about Indonesian languages than i do, but in English i have always just used "keris" as the plural of keris much the same way that moose, sheep or shrimp are the same both singularly and plural.


I can't check my reference books for now but I seem to have read "krisses" as the plural of "kris" in many books written in English such as those from Frey and Van Duuren?
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Old 28th April 2017, 08:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
I can't check my reference books for now but I seem to have read "krisses" as the plural of "kris" in many books written in English such as those from Frey and Van Duuren?
Regards

Yep, i've certainly seen that spelling. But frankly it sounds funny, like you are lisping when you say it. I'll stick to plural keris myself under i find a point where it doesn't proper communicate what i am trying to say. Just my own 2 keris there...
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Old 28th April 2017, 10:40 PM   #9
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Actually David, I use "keris" as the plural form also. I probably should use "kris" as the correct English spelling, but I'd sooner not. However, as Jean has said, a lot of keris-literate writers in English use "kerises" or "krises". In any case, we can always get around the problem with sentence construction.
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Old 29th April 2017, 04:03 AM   #10
Gavin Nugent
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1 keris, 2 keris, 3 keris more, look at all those keris....keris it is....
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Old 29th April 2017, 04:57 AM   #11
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One a Krissy, two a Krissy, three a Krissy, four
Krissy dressed in tight blue jeans,
Knocking on my door.
Come in little Krissy,
Don't stand there in rain,
I've had a Krissy once before
And I'd like to once again.
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Old 29th April 2017, 09:16 AM   #12
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A nice title and very educational book. I am following his steps....
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Old 29th April 2017, 10:11 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
A nice title and very educational book. I am following his steps....

The European manner....

Gavin
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Old 29th April 2017, 11:09 AM   #14
Johan van Zyl
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Cool

This is why I have come to love this keris warung kopi website so much.

I would not vote for the use of "krises" as a plural, because it comes too close to "crises". Especially when you pronounce the word as "creece", then you have a "crises" on your hands.
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Old 2nd May 2017, 05:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent
These are nice Keris, I've a few here myself . Thanks for sharing.

Question, why the Bugis Pendokok? I am aware of a similar Patani pendokok from my own collections (but not found on Tajong), but I do not see this design amongst these?

Perhaps you can tell us more about the design elements of each province that makes these keris so interesting? Perhaps some or all have a long well established regional provenance which reflects in the carvings?

Gavin


Gavin, I believe those shown are more of Patani pendokok rather than Bugis. I do not have the depth of knowledge to provide details on the different design elements of different provinces. But from my limited knowledge, the tajongs are more commonly adorned with "teming",( Kelantanese/ Pattani word - which is sort of molded to the base of the Tajong hilt, usually made of silver, brass, or suasa , as per attached pics), than pendokok. I may not be fully accurate on this though.
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Old 3rd May 2017, 09:59 AM   #16
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Thanks for this insight kayoba84.

Teming is not something I am familiar with, I've only ever seen the simple tajong cup form noted at pendokok in line with the name for other types from the Malay region.
I hope a more learned Keris forum member can chime in about the name Teming.

Gavin
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Old 3rd May 2017, 12:00 PM   #17
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The Pendokok of Tajong was a bipartite construction, consisting of Teming (one of Tajong kayoba84 show has a proper Teming) and a hilt cup. If we see a suassa Teming, we can be sure hilt cup was made of equally valuable material, and in most cases has been sold, pawned... or whatever. Somewhere on forum there is a picture of such hilt cup in a Malayan museum (or ACM?). A museum in Basel owns one complete ensemble, the best Tajong ever.

Becouse of the loss of hilt cup the Tajong hilt (with or without Teming) sits to low on Pesi.

The second example kayoba84 shows us in his last post is quite typical hilt cup from Terengganu, yet with slightly elongated proportions. I doubt though, it was originally intended to be a hilt cup for this Tajong (which had a Teming in his past). The rest are Malayan Bugis style Pendokok, not intended for Tajong, and one specimen, which could be a younger version of Tajong hilt cup. Difficult to judge from the picture.

Last edited by Gustav : 3rd May 2017 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 3rd May 2017, 10:38 PM   #18
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Gustav,

Thank you for the enlightenment in your post.

If I understand the detail you have written and I use the image attached, the Teming is only the plain metal wrapping and the Pendokok is then the more decorative cover over the Teming?
What is the reference citing this? I ask as 90% of my books are currently in storage and the best reference I have at hand being "Spirit of Wood" does not note this in the glossary of terms?

With thanks

Gavin
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Old 3rd May 2017, 10:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
It does seem to me that the focus of interest for those who collect these is far more directed on the dress (specifically the hilts) than the blades themselves.


By large I agree David, but the blades, although not a pamor type which is so often the allure of a good keris, the blades from this region are often so very interesting and extremely well constructed with beautiful "lava" like crucible steel cores, well defined differential steel edges and an array of differential heat treating throughout.

In the proper finish, they can look quite spectacular.

Gavin
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Old 28th May 2017, 04:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
It does seem to me that the focus of interest for those who collect these is far more directed on the dress (specifically the hilts) than the blades themselves.


According to contemporary Peninsular & Singaporean collectors, a tajong is defined by the dress (both hilt and sheath), so in the absence of proper dress, it isn't a tajong, but rather a pandai saras blade, or a carita blade, or whatever.

I agree with Gavin that in general the blades dressed as tajong are of generally good quality, unlike the middling to poor quality blades that are often found in coteng dress. Peninsular blades lack contrasting pamor, but they are typically well-forged, with good detail work. It's not uncommon to find a better quality carita blade in tajong dress.

Thanks for posting these images, kyoba84, I'm deeply envious of your collection.
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Old 28th May 2017, 04:09 AM   #21
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Tajong with a pandai saras blade, in the collection of the Asian Civilizations Museum.
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Old 28th May 2017, 04:10 AM   #22
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Tajong with a carita blade, in the collection of the Asian Civilizations Museum.
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Old 28th May 2017, 06:04 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent


If I understand the detail you have written and I use the image attached, the Teming is only the plain metal wrapping and the Pendokok is then the more decorative cover over the Teming?

Gavin


Treming is an accepted standalone as an alternative to pendokok for tajong hilt. Many tajong keris in Kelantan and Patani have suasa or silver teming and in fact some prefer teming rather than pendokok. Once you decide to put teming, you do not put pendokok over it.

incidentally the a friend recently made a watercolor of the hilt you showed. I was wondering where he based his warercolor from !!! ...
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Old 28th May 2017, 12:04 PM   #24
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Hello Nik,

Quote:
Treming is an accepted standalone as an alternative to pendokok for tajong hilt. Many tajong keris in Kelantan and Patani have suasa or silver teming and in fact some prefer teming rather than pendokok. Once you decide to put teming, you do not put pendokok over it.

Just to clarify, treming was just a typo, isn't it? BTW, what does teming mean?

A pendokok seems to work well with a round buah pinang which is quite rare with tajong hilts; would you agree that tajong with slender/conical buah pinang look better with teming?

The splendid Basel tajong hilt shown above does have a double construction of a simple cup (a bit different from the usual teming) and, apparently, a separate de luxe pendokok from gold... Any other antique high-end examples extant that exhibit complex hilt fittings?

Regards,
Kai
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Old 28th May 2017, 12:18 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Hello Nik,


Just to clarify, treming was just a typo, isn't it? BTW, what does teming mean?

A pendokok seems to work well with a round buah pinang which is quite rare with tajong hilts; would you agree that tajong with slender/conical buah pinang look better with teming?

The splendid Basel tajong hilt shown above does have a double construction of a simple cup (a bit different from the usual teming) and, apparently, a separate de luxe pendokok from gold... Any other antique high-end examples extant that exhibit complex hilt fittings?

Regards,
Kai


Kai, teming/temi is a variation of pronounciation spoken by East Coast Malaysian. The correct word in standardised Bahasa Malaysia and Bahasa Indonesia is Temin. Which means some sort of a metal sleeve to reinforce hilts or spear shafts. Below are the entry for temin in both in Bahasa Malaysia and Indonesia.

http://prpm.dbp.gov.my/Cari1?keyword=temin

http://kbbi.web.id/temin

To digress a bit. Recently collectors in Malaysia have started using the word "akuk" or "akut" (which does not appear in the dictionary) to refer to belalai gajah. I think this word is also pronounced according to the Malaysian east coast dialect.

In my opinion the word is actually "angkup" (which is listed in the dictionary) where it refers to the shape of the belalai gajah that resembles a small picker. This instrument is however, modern. Probably in old Malay the word angkup was used to describe something that is shaped like a picker, or it means "closed" - "bertangkup" in Malay. Below is a picture of an angkup.
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Old 28th May 2017, 10:56 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai

The splendid Basel tajong hilt shown above does have a double construction of a simple cup (a bit different from the usual teming) and, apparently, a separate de luxe pendokok from gold...



Kai, may I ask you to explain the bit of difference of the Basel Tajong's "simple cup" and an "usual" Teming?

Thank you very much.
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Old 30th May 2017, 12:13 AM   #27
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Hello Rasdan,

Thanks, that helps!

Quote:
teming/temi is a variation of pronounciation spoken by East Coast Malaysian. The correct word in standardised Bahasa Malaysia and Bahasa Indonesia is Temin. Which means some sort of a metal sleeve to reinforce hilts or spear shafts.

So basically we can just translate this into English as ferrule since it has no specialized connotations and concentrates on function rather than stylistic details.

Regards,
Kai
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Old 30th May 2017, 12:47 AM   #28
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Hello Gustav,

Quote:
Kai, may I ask you to explain the bit of difference of the Basel Tajong's "simple cup" and an "usual" Teming?

In the tajong hilts with slender/conical buah pinang, the temin/ferrule seems to have the function to avoid damage to the buah pinang (which seems to be very prone to fatal splitting - more so than in most other keris hilts IME).

The cup style is close to a plain Sumatran selut/pendokok and without offering any structural support it won't really help to avoid splitting of the buah pinang.

Arguably, the functional difference of a ferrule vs. cup may not be much of a consideration for the very high-end examples like the one in Basel since a splendid look may be much more important than function...

Regards,
Kai
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Old 30th May 2017, 11:16 AM   #29
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Thank you, Kai.

It seems to me we are looking at the same thing, Teming. In visible parts there is no difference, about the part hidden by hilt cup we can only speculate. Kayoba's Teming is a little bit elongated (for an example, which doesn't cover whole Buah Pinang).
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Old 30th May 2017, 02:34 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Hello Rasdan,

Thanks, that helps!


So basically we can just translate this into English as ferrule since it has no specialized connotations and concentrates on function rather than stylistic details.

Regards,
Kai


You're welcome Kai. Yes, the direct translation is ferrule.
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