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Old 19th March 2017, 04:41 PM   #1
Tim Simmons
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Thumbs up It's in a book.

I know I should not be bothered by the {if not in a book, it is not very good and must be made for tourists mentality} which can be tiresome yet quite prevalent. It is none the less satisfying to find {the one in a book}
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Old 19th March 2017, 05:41 PM   #2
Jens Nordlunde
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From which book do you have the picture, and from where do you think the club is?
I have a few books with items from the early time of the Narional Museum in Copenhagen. Maybe I can find it.
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Old 19th March 2017, 06:21 PM   #3
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If I may, your club or truncheon looks similar but it's not the club depicted in the book. The one is the book has one simple circular section, yours has one circular then an octogonal section plus some bone inlays and a pommel ring...
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Old 19th March 2017, 09:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur
If I may, your club or truncheon looks similar but it's not the club depicted in the book. The one is the book has one simple circular section, yours has one circular then an octogonal section plus some bone inlays and a pommel ring...

I don't believe Tim was trying to say that he found the same exact club in a book, only that he found the same form of club which for some might recognize it as a legitimate form. despite the small difference you note i would say Tim's club is obvious of the same type as the one he found in the book.
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Old 7th February 2018, 04:04 PM   #5
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the book could be wrong... there are historic accounts of people selling other items (mostly stirrers i believe) as war clubs. I believe it was Oldman who warned about this in one of his letters...
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Old 7th February 2018, 04:25 PM   #6
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I'm just an old ---- stirrer.
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Old 7th February 2018, 09:29 PM   #7
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or.... maybe a scepter!
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Old 9th August 2018, 07:15 PM   #8
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Default more books

Found it in more books, i believe the one on the right in the picture with 3 clubs is made fore tourists, the other picture with 3 clubs the one in the left looks a lot better.
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Old 9th August 2018, 09:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireiceviper
or.... maybe a scepter!

It's interesting that you say scepter. Scepters or something scepter like have long been used in cultures all over the world as symbols of power. A scepter is basically a very ornate club or mace when you boil it down. The further you look back in art work that depicts scepters the more flat-out club like they become.

I have to wonder why this specific form of object is so often wielded by Kings, war chiefs and the like. I mean as apposed to a spear or axe, perhaps even a sword. No doubt we see these as well but the prevalence of the scepter over them is clear.

A thought I had on this is that a club is a weapon that is as dangerous as you want it to be. One could jab someone in the stomach to cause them pain but likely do no lasting harm. They could also break a leg with it to cause pain and lasting harm that a person could recover from. Or it could be used to crush the skull and end a person relatively quickly.

It imparts to the user a level of control as to how much harm they do if any that not many other weapons allow for. It's a very judicious weapon.That might be what it represents conceptually (it's deep meaning). The wielder has the power of measured and deliberate force.

Beyond that there likely is no craft which exists that does not have to it one or more club like tools. The herbalist see's a muddler. The cook sees a meat tenderizer. The cleaning servant see's a rug duster. The carpenter sees a mallet etc. So there is something that is common core and widely relatable about the shape of what is basically a top heavy stick.

In theory all could make good use of it. But the best one (at least aesthetically) only one gets to posses and with it they can decide the fate of others. There is definitely something primal and powerful about it as a status symbol (i.e. clubs/maces/scepters).
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Old 9th August 2018, 09:16 PM   #10
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Any chance of more info about the book posted here? The man with the ornate stick tells those with the swords and knives where to go and fight.
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Old 12th August 2018, 10:02 PM   #11
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Default Shark mace.

To continue this thread. I have just managed to join in all the fun agian with the purchase (had to spend more than I wanted to)of this fascinating shark mace / club. I would think it is 1920-30s. Now the debate is what is the purpose ? Tourist production or cultural art object ? From this one of the sellers picture the only full length image. It has been carved and finished with great care polished with degree of patination. When I have it I can make a better sudy. Personally I do not think it is a weapon club. Sharks feature heavily in Solomon Island art and culture, myth and religion especially pre Christian missionary conversion. Elements of pre conversion shark cults still survive today, shark calling and feeding. I do wonder is this was the possession of a shark priest. For the moment I post some background information. A shark man sculpture from the British museum published 1977 The Tribal Image, William Fagg, British Musem Press. A very informative link to PDF. A shark reliquary, internet picture Penn Museum.

http://www.penn.museum/documents/pu...-1/Vengeful.pdf
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Old 13th August 2018, 07:26 AM   #12
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Default Shark cult.

1909 newspaper article on shark cult.

https://www.coloradohistoricnewspap...090321-01.2.84#

Also putting 20th century missionary activity in contexct.
http://www.solomonencyclopaedia.net/biogs/E000203b.htm

Even more
http://www.solomonencyclopaedia.net/biogs/E000274b.htm

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Old 13th August 2018, 03:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Simmons
Any chance of more info about the book posted here? The man with the ornate stick tells those with the swords and knives where to go and fight.



these 2 publications

Power and Prestige The Arts of Island Melanesia and the Polynesian Outliers by Norman Hurst

the other is an auction catalog:

TRÉSORS D'ART OCÉANIEN - COLLECTION RAINER WERNER BOCK
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Old 19th August 2018, 07:00 PM   #14
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While waiting for the arrival of the Solomon Islands club/scepter or mace. I have purchased this mace curio. Sold as a oceanic club. I went for it as it is a unusual European ( English) item. Clearly not a weapon but symbol of authority in Catholicism. I also think that it may well be rather old as in really quite old. Judging by the size of the terminals, with the aid of magnification, I think are turned ivory so I am stuck with it. It is 60 cm long and 7.5 cm diameter. I add it here to show the parallel function of a ceremonial mace in differing cultures carried to denote specialist authority.
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Old 22nd August 2018, 04:57 PM   #15
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I have it now and it is rather nice, heavy and very much a club. It is beautifully finished with no trace of file marks just the random carving scratch marks one would expect to find. Clearly there is not the deep brown patina of the much loved mid 19th century clubs. However who really knows why and when these things were created, also who knows when they were collected {how old they are at the time of collection} and how well they have been kept until in your hands. I think it best to say this example is pre 1940s. Do not let that make you think it was all over for traditional weapons on the Solomons, kastom has not vanished. The design is most accomplished with the shark form morphing into a beaked face and masterful placing of fine cut shell. Following the killing of colonial governor William Bell in 1927, when groups of islanders were dispersed traditional weapons were left scattered around. I show it with a few other shell decorated pieces left in my possession 9 in total. IMHO this example knock much Ulas into a cocked hat at a 10th of the price and 10 times less common.

Also if you have not already viewed this pdf you can now.

http://www.britishmuseum.org/pdf/Malaita_online.pdf
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