Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 5th February 2016, 03:17 PM   #1
stenoyab
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 43
Default Indian Matchlock with sprung flashpan cover

A preservation project, Indian matchlock of good quality with a very unusual sprung loaded flash pan released by a catch on the rear of the stock.

Sadly someone at some time had taken it apart, so one side plate, the trigger guard plate and another plate were missing, the trigger is a later blacksmith addition to repair a broken trigger. Stock was snapped in two and various parts of the wood work were missing. So I've just tried to put it back together so it can survive another 200 years.

When the catch on the stock is lightly touched the pan springs open.

What's also interesting is the fake flash pan on the top, perhaps to allow you to appear to have any empty pan or to have a fake flash in the pan.

The barrel is decorated with fine bands of silver and copper/gold inlay very similar to a Indian Flintlock shown in Firearms of the Islamic World by Robert Elgwood as fig.94, attributed to the maker Seetaram and Sons, from Rajasthan?.
Attached Images
      
stenoyab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2016, 04:16 PM   #2
thinreadline
Member
 
thinreadline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wirral
Posts: 1,002
Default

most unusual , I like this feature.
thinreadline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th February 2016, 09:50 PM   #3
Pukka Bundook
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 743
Default

This arrangement doesn't look Indian. I Think it was designed by an English chap, (working up in Rajasthan) but have to re-check the details.

First time I have seen it though!

Can't say more at present, as I Will get the facts wrong! Be back later though.
Thanks for showing it!

It looks good and solid, you should sort is as a shooter. :-)
I believe the upper pan was to try your match. that's the only thing that comes to mind as plausible.
Very interesting set -up.
Pukka Bundook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2016, 06:34 PM   #4
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,380
Default

Hi Stenoyab.

Just when I thought I've seen everything. LOL. That is the most unusual - and interesting - feature on a Torador matchlock that I've ever seen.
As Richard says.....it does look like an invention/addition to the gun at the time of manufacture. (?). But it is certainly cool !!! Never seen/heard of one before. Richard's guess as the reason for the fake pan is as good as I can guess for the moment. This highly unusual feature alone would be justification for restoration IMHO.
Speaking of restoration: If possible, could you provide some photos of the complete gun as well as photos of the areas of missing parts? I might have some original parts you could use (?) such as this original trigger assembly
PM me if you prefer.
Thanks for Posting this really unique feature on a common gun.

Rick.
Attached Images
 
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2016, 08:14 PM   #5
stenoyab
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 43
Default

Thanks for the kind comments,

It was certainly new made like this, not modified.

The top side plate in the photo below is original, the other three plates I made to match the cutouts in the stock. Trying to tone the new steel down takes some time.

Whats also very interesting is the pattern on the barrel is etched, while very worn/pitted along the top of the barrel, the half of the barrel in the stock came out looking like its new, showing the barrel was always in the bright. They clearly etched the barrel in the round and then put the best half facing up.

The matchlock is only partially back together, I'm having lots of trouble trying to find a suitable material to replace the rawhide bindings. But will try to take a photo tomorrow.

The trigger is a hard call, I could have made one in typical style for a matchlock, but I'd really be guessing, so in the end decided to leave it as it came to me, I've not altered or repaired any of the original parts. In the end I just felt it was right to get it back together with all the original parts I have so it survives for future generations.
Attached Images
   
stenoyab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2016, 09:27 AM   #6
stenoyab
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 43
Default

As requested heres an overall and a few other photos.

55" overall with 37" barrel.
Attached Images
     
stenoyab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2016, 02:41 PM   #7
Pukka Bundook
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 743
Default

Lovely solid looking musket, even if it is in bits, J.

Here's what I was looking for, from "Firearms of the Islamic World" (Elgood)P,163 -4;

"A Scottish mercenary, Col. George Sangster, who previously served the Jat chiefs of Gohad, was employed by de Boigne in 1790 to establish an arsenal at Agra. Sangster, who was trained as a gun-founder and manufacturer before becoming a mercenary in India, cast excellent cannon and made muskets as good as the European models for ten Rupees each, though one account says his flintlocks were inferior.
Amongst the guns that he made were matchlocks with bayonets and an *Improved Lock* in which the pan was automatically uncovered by a spring released when the trigger was pulled.
De Boigne's forces included Najibs, men of good family who adopted a semblance of European military practice and were much respected, Pathans, Rohillas and high-cast Hindus.
They were traditionally armed with matchlock, shields and swords, but these were replaced with the new pattern matchlock, with a bayonet."

He goes on to say that it is difficult to identify any of the arms made by Sangster and Legge.
Sangster died in 1792 in Lucknow.

I think that beyond reasonable doubt, you have a Sangster matchlock here, J.!
This one, being I would imagine a bit more decorative would possibly have been designed for sporting use, or for someone of higher standing, but the match design Does appear very 'western' and can only imagine this is Sangster's work.

best,
Richard.
Pukka Bundook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2016, 09:05 AM   #8
stenoyab
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 43
Default

Thanks Richard,
Had read about Sangster last year, but discounted him as I assumed "trigger" to refer to the trigger of the matchlock, rather than purely the catch to "trigger" the release of the pan cover. So I was thinking his invention was a pan cover that was released as you squeezed the "trigger" to fire.

However. reading on in "Firearms of the Islamic World" (Elgood) P167", commenting on guns made at Mysore, states "The automatic pan opener is a great improvement on Sangster's design, made at Agra a short time earlier."

So I think you are correct and this match lock is almost certainly an example of Sangsters spring pan.
stenoyab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th February 2016, 10:40 AM   #9
stenoyab
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 43
Default

Looking at the fine print further in Elgoods references I see he mentions a image of the flash pan in "A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor in All Countries and in all times" by George Cameron Stone as figure 564.

But although he references it with regards to Sangster's design from Agra, I think it is the improved "automatic" design from Mysore.

(image of fig.564 from stones included for academic interest only)
Attached Images
 
stenoyab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th February 2016, 03:46 AM   #10
Pukka Bundook
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 743
Default

This latter design in your last post, I see as Indian, Stenoyab.

It hasn't the clean look of the other, which I am sure is made or designed by Sangster.
Probably others tried to make something similar, if not in mechanics, at least in function.

Yours isn't just a munitions grade piece, and probably variations were made on the same basic theme for local worthies and as examples.
As we had up to this time, no known examples of this mechanism by Sangster, I believe yours is the first to come to light!

Congratulations, and I am so pleased you managed to save this one!

Richard.
Pukka Bundook is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:53 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.