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Old 12th August 2015, 02:53 PM   #1
weapons 27
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Default otoman pic axe and war hammer or persian ??

What do you think that this set pic axe and war hammer.
you know the origin !!
I did some research and it would otoman!!!
thank
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Old 13th August 2015, 09:03 PM   #2
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weapons 27
What do you think that this set pic axe and war hammer.
you know the origin !!
I did some research and it would otoman!!!
thank



Salaams weapons 27 ~This subject is much deeper than it first seems.. What I find interesting is that weapons such as these continued to be carried well into the 20th Century; more as a badge of office for those they belonged to...The Sufi /Jewish Sect; spanning across the region and including Iran; see https://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2013...dervishes-1922/

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Old 14th August 2015, 12:57 PM   #3
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Could some of the parade axes that I usually associate with the Qajar dynasty actually been used by these dervishes ? They look very similar .
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Old 14th August 2015, 01:38 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drac2k
Could some of the parade axes that I usually associate with the Qajar dynasty actually been used by these dervishes ? They look very similar .


Flimsy look and poor quality silver koftgari is almost identical to Syrian made stuff. Though I dont recall axes and maces...
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Old 14th August 2015, 03:52 PM   #5
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I totally agree, it is not an old set.
It's not Ottoman and it's not Qajar.
May be a Turkish or Indian tourist set.
I cannot say if it's an early 20th or even a 1970ties set...
I'm sure some members will answer to this question.
Sorry for that...
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Old 14th August 2015, 09:49 PM   #6
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The problem with saying koftkagari is 1930- back is that it is still being made in traditional ways. I have seen it worked in morocco, Egypt , and 2nd hand India . I know of others who have seen the work done recently in turkey and Syria. I have watched black smithing work done in morocco. A lot of items out there are new or redecorated.
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Old 15th August 2015, 02:15 PM   #7
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Up for sale is this very interesting set of Ottoman Pole Arms consisting of a battle axe and a war hammer. The axe blade is 5 inches tall, 3 inches wide. The war hammer is 2 inches long with a curved back spike 7 inches long. Both the axe and the hammer are mounted on wooden hafts, 23 inches long, covered with fabric and reinforced with steel strip and brass tacks. The hafts are fitted with steel collars and steel handles. The axe and hammer blades as well as the haft steel fittings are decorated with silver koftgari decoration typical to the late 19 C. Ottoman style. Very good condition. Fabric covers are lightly worn. Some losses to the Kobtgari decoration on the war hammer and the haft fittings.

Last edited by Rick : 16th August 2015 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 15th August 2015, 02:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weapons 27
Up for sale is this very interesting set of Ottoman Pole Arms consisting of a battle axe and a war hammer. The axe blade is 5 inches tall, 3 inches wide. The war hammer is 2 inches long with a curved back spike 7 inches long. Both the axe and the hammer are mounted on wooden hafts, 23 inches long, covered with fabric and reinforced with steel strip and brass tacks. The hafts are fitted with steel collars and steel handles. The axe and hammer blades as well as the haft steel fittings are decorated with silver koftgari decoration typical to the late 19 C. Ottoman style. Very good condition. Fabric covers are lightly worn. Some losses to the Kobtgari decoration on the war hammer and the haft fittings.

I do not agree with you !!
Here are all virtually identical to the one above

Picture has been removed as item is currently for sale (not allowed here) .

Last edited by Rick : 16th August 2015 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 15th August 2015, 02:31 PM   #9
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Here are two other axes of my collection
it on one of the velvet is gone, we still perceive the rest of brown velvet
they are two heavy axes certainly not tourist !!!!
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Old 15th August 2015, 10:46 PM   #10
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These are mostly Sudanese Mehdi period arms, made in the Ottoman and Persian style. They look 'almost' as good, the steel is decent, but the tumb-print is the very light silver koftgari that dades away easily. Good koftgari of a similar theme & technique usualy indicates a recent made.
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Old 16th August 2015, 07:08 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broadaxe
These are mostly Sudanese Mehdi period arms, made in the Ottoman and Persian style. They look 'almost' as good, the steel is decent, but the tumb-print is the very light silver koftgari that dades away easily. Good koftgari of a similar theme & technique usualy indicates a recent made.


An interesting idea, if this is true then they are certainly not recently made, that time period would date them to the late 1800s.

Here is another similar war pick.
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Old 16th August 2015, 07:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weapons 27
Here are two other axes of my collection
it on one of the velvet is gone, we still perceive the rest of brown velvet
they are two heavy axes certainly not tourist !!!!

I agree, not recently made, and in my opinion not tourist looking items.
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Old 16th August 2015, 03:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drac2k
Could some of the parade axes that I usually associate with the Qajar dynasty actually been used by these dervishes ? They look very similar .


Salaams drac2k ~ I think so ...I have seen Dervish pictures with almost the entire range of weapons including axes etc... Qajari period...and later.

For a broad outline see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dervish .

The list of pictures shows various Dervishes in different garb...some with axes etc and one which is named as a Dervish Sword see https://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368073626987/

See here Jewish dervishes Agha-Jaan Darvish and his brother, patriarchs of the Darvish family. Tehran, Iran, c.1922;
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JW4sWqPJb...OO0/s1600/1.jpg

Another Dervish with a saddle axe;
https://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=...sian+Dervishers


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi : 16th August 2015 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 17th August 2015, 01:11 PM   #14
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Thank you Ibrahiim al Balooshi for linking to some very interesting sites !
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Old 17th August 2015, 02:21 PM   #15
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Please also see a partial report concerning the equipment worn and carried by Persian Dervish including weapons at http://www.academia.edu/11324900/Vi...an_Iran_part_1_

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi : 18th August 2015 at 10:50 AM.
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