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Old 3rd July 2014, 12:36 PM   #1
RSWORD
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Default Unknown short sword. Where's it from? Philippines? Naga?

It is not often that I run across something I haven't seen before so when I do I tend to gravitate towards those items. This is a very interesting piece. It is about 21" long with a very thick and heavy blade. This is probably the reason for the long steel ferrule. The grip is of unusual form but is 8 sided. I would place it in the 19th century so it has very good age. The 8 sided grip reminds me of the Philippines but the shape of the handle is unique for that region. The blade shape is also a bit unique. Very thick spine, heavy and currently out of polish so unsure of the blade construction. The long steel ferrule reminds me a bit of Kalinga axe but the weld is nearly seamless where as you tend to have an overlapping weld on a Kalinga axe. The other region I gravitated towards was the Naga/Assam regions. Again, not an exact match to anything from that region but certain similarities can be found. I'm hoping the collective knowledge of the forum has seen this form somewhere in an obscure reference or can lend additional hypothesis to the mix to help on the road to discovery.
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Old 3rd July 2014, 08:12 PM   #2
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Hello Rick,

my feeling tells me somewhere from the mainland of SEA but frankly said I've never seen something similar.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 3rd July 2014, 09:13 PM   #3
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First guess is a dha-like something, Could also be a malay or indonesian chopper.

Blade has something from a sikin panjang. Could be a rehilted thing from that area as well.

Same story as Detlef told you, and i haven't seen anything like this either.
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Old 3rd July 2014, 11:15 PM   #4
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Hello Rick, It sure is nice to know that I am not alone when it comes to not being able to pass up the odd item when it shows up. I wish I could help on this, but like everyone else I have never seen anything like this before.

Best,
Robert
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Old 4th July 2014, 04:18 AM   #5
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Hi Rick:

That's definitely unusual. It appears to have been much used and resharpened many times. There is quite a deficit in the edge at the center of the blade, suggesting it has been used repeatedly as a chopper. So maybe more of a tool than a weapon.

Nothing about it really speaks to a specific origin.

Ian.
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Old 4th July 2014, 08:27 AM   #6
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The structure of the piece reminds me a bit of this knife/chopper I had and posted on the forum a couple of years ago - the metal sleeve and faceted finial are both commonalities. My knife was thought to be from Java in the end.
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Old 5th July 2014, 02:11 AM   #7
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Thanks for the feedback guys. As I suspected we have a wide range of opinions which adds to the mystique and interest in this piece. If only these things could talk. I will review all the thoughts and add to them to mine and continue to work on a possible origin. Many thanks for the feedback.
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Old 5th July 2014, 05:17 AM   #8
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Rick:

On further reflection I think the clue to what this was used for lies in the thickness of the blade. You say "very thick," but just how thick? If the spine measures more than a centimeter across, then the overwhelming use for such a blade in SE Asia is for splitting coconuts or chopping branches and small trees for firewood. Yes, we do find occasional weapons with blades of that thickness (the parang latok from Borneo, some of the klewang from Aceh, etc.), but seldom the focused wear on the blade that this one shows.

Since the blade has seen some hard use, probably over an extended period of time, it is possible that the handle is a replacement. And the scabbard also looks fairly recent in manufacture, with those well preserved rattan strips and no obvious dings.

My best guess would be a coconut splitting knife from northern Burma/Nagaland/Assam.

Ian.
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Old 5th July 2014, 09:54 AM   #9
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Default Tenggerese mountain

Hello Rick,

It is from the Tengger Mountains.
In the museum of Leiden are several of them, all from the Tenggerese..

A good Belgium friendcollector of mine, who alerted me on your post, has also one in his private collection and did some research before and knew what it was.

Regards from Belgium and the Netherlands!
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Last edited by Maurice : 5th July 2014 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 5th July 2014, 11:14 AM   #10
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Default Images from the Dutch Tropenmuseum

COLLECTIE TROPENMUSEUM Portret van een oude Tenggerese man TMnr 10005231.jpg


Portrait of an old Tenggerese man

Dated 1910



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Old 5th July 2014, 12:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice
Hello Rick,

It is from the Tengger Mountains.
In the museum of Leiden are several of them, all from the Tenggerese..

A good Belgium friendcollector of mine, who alerted me on your post, has also one in his private collection and did some research before and knew what it was.

Regards from Belgium and the Netherlands!


Hello Maurice,

great! This is one reason why I am happy to be a member of this forum; nearly all seldom seen items can be identified! Never have seen such a chopper before.

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 5th July 2014, 03:38 PM   #12
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Maurice,

Many thanks to you and your collector friend. I was hopeful someone had seen something similar and given how many of us had not run across anything similar it has been most helpful and educational. I agree completely with Sajen! This is a huge reason why we gather. Bravo!
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Old 5th July 2014, 05:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice
Hello Rick,

It is from the Tengger Mountains.
In the museum of Leiden are several of them, all from the Tenggerese..

A good Belgium friendcollector of mine, who alerted me on your post, has also one in his private collection and did some research before and knew what it was.

Regards from Belgium and the Netherlands!

Where did you get those cool maps? They are very cool….
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Old 5th July 2014, 06:18 PM   #14
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I am trying to think back on obscure pieces ultimately being correctly identified on this site and I really believe this one "might take the cake".

Interesting piece, and even more fascinating to learn more about it.

Personally, I have never seen anything remotely similar.

Good post Rsword!
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Old 6th July 2014, 10:41 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
COLLECTIE TROPENMUSEUM Portret van een oude Tenggerese man TMnr 10005231.jpg


Portrait of an old Tenggerese man

Dated 1910




This is a cool photo of a Tengerese man! Thanks for sharing....
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Old 6th July 2014, 10:42 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Hello Maurice,

great! This is one reason why I am happy to be a member of this forum; nearly all seldom seen items can be identified! Never have seen such a chopper before.

Regards,
Detlef




Regards,
Maurice
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Old 6th July 2014, 10:45 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Workman
Where did you get those cool maps? They are very cool….


I have this very big Atlas "van Tropisch Nederland", 1938.
I made the photos with my cellphone from it.

Rg,
Maurice
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Old 6th July 2014, 10:49 AM   #18
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My friend didn't mind placing a photo of the sword in his collection.

So here it is!
Enjoy.....

Rg,
Maurice
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Old 6th July 2014, 09:11 PM   #19
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Nice find Rick and cool research Maurice!

Blades from the Tenggerese, like the Badui, is not something you see everyday...

Michael
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Old 6th July 2014, 09:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVV
Nice find Rick and cool research Maurice!

Blades from the Tenggerese, like the Badui, is not something you see everyday...

Michael


Are there documented blades known from the Badui people?

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 7th July 2014, 12:07 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Are there documented blades known from the Badui people?

Regards,
Detlef


Reread the gobang article I've sent you a while ago Detlef. There you'll find more info about the Badoei blades..

Rg Maurice
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Old 7th July 2014, 07:31 AM   #22
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Well done Maurice and friend, great identification !

Regards
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Old 7th July 2014, 06:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice
Reread the gobang article I've sent you a while ago Detlef. There you'll find more info about the Badoei blades..

Rg Maurice


Hi Maurice,

yes, forget it!

Regards,
Detlef
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Old 7th July 2014, 07:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colin henshaw
Well done Maurice and friend, great identification !

Regards


You're welcome.
Great that it is appreciated so much Colin!

Rg,
Maurice
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Old 7th July 2014, 07:25 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Hi Maurice,

yes, forget it!

Regards,
Detlef


Hi Detlef,

look at page 20 / 21 and you'll find some information.
Not much, but better as nothing.
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Old 7th July 2014, 07:40 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice
Hi Detlef,

look at page 20 / 21 and you'll find some information.
Not much, but better as nothing.


Hi Maurice,

you're correct, just have checked it!
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Old 7th July 2014, 09:48 PM   #27
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Old 7th July 2014, 11:42 PM   #28
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Looks very similar Emanuel. I'd say the same group.

Ian.
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