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Old 31st July 2012, 01:40 AM   #1
A.alnakkas
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Default Rhino Khanjar for comments

Hey guys,

So I finally had time to share this one. Its a nice rhino hilted Omani khanjar with a good blade. Blade was heavily rusted so cleaned it up but during the cleaning, some of the wd40 went inside the hilt and stained the rhino. Gav told me thats ok and it shouldnt damage the rhino though! :-)

How old is such a piece? interesting details in the silver work especially at the flowers etc. Certainly better work then most modern Omani stuff.
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Old 31st July 2012, 01:41 AM   #2
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More photos!
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Old 31st July 2012, 02:02 AM   #3
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Very nice Lofty. Those circles of silver pins on the back of the hilt are something I have not seen before. Will leave the expert comments for others.......................
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Old 31st July 2012, 03:13 AM   #4
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Very nice, definitely an older one.
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Old 31st July 2012, 09:51 AM   #5
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Lovely piece A.alnakkas.

I have to disagree with Gavs advice re wd40 on organics like rhino horn though.

wd40 contains harsh volatile solvents & is primarily used as a degreaser & for water displacment, so wd40 will eventualy dry out the area of horn, potentialy causing degredation of the material.

I would treat the rhino with liberal quantities of baby oil, or sesame oil {popular in the Yemen I understand.}{rubbing of the excess.} to prevent the wd40 from drying out the horn excesively. wd40 also damages leather for the same reason.

spiral

Last edited by spiral : 31st July 2012 at 11:24 AM. Reason: clarity.
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Old 31st July 2012, 02:26 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiral
Lovely piece A.alnakkas.

I have to disagree with Gavs advice re wd40 on organics like rhino horn though.

wd40 contains harsh volatile solvents & is primarily used as a degreaser & for water displacment, so wd40 will eventualy dry out the area of horn, potentialy causing degredation of the material.

I would treat the rhino with liberal quantities of baby oil, or sesame oil {popular in the Yemen I understand.}{rubbing of the excess.} to prevent the wd40 from drying out the horn excesively. wd40 also damages leather for the same reason.

spiral


Not to be taken out of context, Lofty mentioned a little WD40 went on to the horn, it wasn't a liberal soaking in WD40. It is purely superficial from my understanding and such a little misapplication will not have lasting effects.
Further treating with any substance suggested is purely personal choice.
The only oil I use for timber, leather, ivory or horn is virgin coconut oil, never a mineral oil.

If you want to see super results for before and after shots of Rhino horn conservation, drop Steve a line, I am most impressed with the changes he creates, though it might be a trade secret too ;-)

Gav
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Old 31st July 2012, 04:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.alnakkas
Hey guys,

So I finally had time to share this one. Its a nice rhino hilted Omani khanjar with a good blade. Blade was heavily rusted so cleaned it up but during the cleaning, some of the wd40 went inside the hilt and stained the rhino. Gav told me thats ok and it shouldnt damage the rhino though! :-)

How old is such a piece? interesting details in the silver work especially at the flowers etc. Certainly better work then most modern Omani stuff.



Salaams A.alnakkas ~ That is a very nice Omani Khanjar. As always difficult to pinpoint its exact provenance but it is "Of the North" (Shimaliyah) It carries the distinctive Ibri pattern of arabesque full circle scrolling widely emulated especially around Nizwa and Rustaq as well as other regions. Omongst the rare inclusions on this Khanjar are the peculiar pins in the back of the hilt hardly ever seen. The hilt is classic Rhino. which commanded a higher price per gram than gold. (A single anterior horn from either of the two African species sufficient for only eleven hilts and the posterior horn enough for only three.) The hilt expertly adorned with several hundred silver pins adding great weight and balance to the dagger. Classic crown of the flat ended variety. Nice old woven belt...Great old blade. This is not a new item!

I would say in the 50/80 year old region with the proviso "they don't make them like that anymore.."

Coconut works on hair and is thus excellent on Rhino horn..

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Afternote ~ Did anyone notice the silver pins in the head of the khanjar at the 4th and 5th photo of #1 which appear to reflect the pattern of the Rhino Horn in the end or top of the hilt? I wonder if that is the idea of hammered pins in the hilt generally as reflecting the pattern of spaghetti endings in Rhino hilts? It is certainly the case that a lot of Rhino hilts have these pins (not counting Royal Khanjars in this equation).

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi : 31st July 2012 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 31st July 2012, 06:17 PM   #8
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Hi Lotfy.

It's a very good Khanjar my friend. How about a shot of it with it's new friends?

Lets all be greatful that as Ibrahiim pointed out "they don't make them like that anymore"
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Old 31st July 2012, 11:27 PM   #9
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Thanks all!

Yes, the amount of wd40 was not huge (alittle actually, but it stained the rhino anyways) as I didnt apply it directly to the hilt, rather it creeped in while I was cleaning the blade :P

So coconut oil, I'll get some tommorow and apply it to the horn. But how? do I just dip it in the oil? I'd rather do it right as I feel like a total dufus for forgetting to cover the hilt and seal it.

Gene, I'll post them tommorow, need sunlight
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Old 1st August 2012, 10:20 AM   #10
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Ahhh sorry Gav, Alnakkas for bieng out of context, I assumed, that as WD 40 was bieng used to remove rust & had soaked inside the hilt causing discoleration thatit was in liberal quantities, not just a slight overspray!

Interesting Gav! Coconut oil? I must admit I have never used it, I find unperfumed baby oil excelent for horn ,bone, metal etc. {Never leather though as after a decade or so that to can promote degrading, particularily of stiching it seems..}

Perhaps the slight leak of wd40 that discoloured the rhino was carrying some of the dissolved rust within it, that would increase the staining.

I am sure Steve has his favorite mixes & techniques for brining rhino back to life, ill have to ask!

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Old 1st August 2012, 11:49 AM   #11
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Virgin coconut oil chaps, get it from your local health shops, give it a go, no smell, no bad side effects....its a solid when cold, liquid when hot.
A long time Pacific rim tribal art collector put me on to it.

Oh and good for the skin too...the broom pilot douses herself with it from head to toe each night

Gav
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Old 1st August 2012, 01:25 PM   #12
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Gav

In my experience with coconut oil I found it goes rancid within a few months if left out Mineral oil might do the trick it is more stable.
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Old 1st August 2012, 01:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebooter
(snip)the broom pilot douses herself with it from head to toe each night

Gav



Does she have her own website?
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Old 1st August 2012, 02:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew
Gav

In my experience with coconut oil I found it goes rancid within a few months if left out Mineral oil might do the trick it is more stable.


Hi Lew,

I'm not sure what you mean by left out? Lid open sitting in the jar?

I've had it on timber in the home for years with no side effects...had a couple of ivory Keris hilts with age cracks in them from the heat and dry, a quick soak, wipe off the excess and in a few days open cracks are all closed up.

As I was informed years ago, be sure it is virgin cocnut oil only and the best place to buy it to ensure purity was a health food shop...

Works for me thus far


Gene, not to my knowledge

And Lofty, as previously noted in mail, congrats, a great piece.

Gav
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Old 1st August 2012, 02:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebooter
I've had it on timber in the home for years with no side effects...had a couple of ivory Keris hilts with age cracks in them from the heat and dry, a quick soak, wipe off the excess and in a few days open cracks are all closed up.

As I was informed years ago, be sure it is virgin cocnut oil only and the best place to buy it to ensure purity was a health food shop...

Gav


Just read this from a Virgin coconut oil exporter.

"Virgin Coconut Oil will not go rancid even at room temperatures in the tropics for a couple of years. Conversely, the refined oils that many Americans use are very unstable and turn rancid (oxidize) quickly. Oxidized oils are very toxic to the body and they can cause wide spread free-radical damage."


So I think ill stick to baby oil, {pharmecutical grade mineral oil.} at the time bieng, as it appears rancidity could become a problem even with the best coconut oil a few years down the line, when it eventualy does turn rancid.

But each to there own & if coconut works for you, thats great..

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Old 1st August 2012, 03:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiral
Just read this from a Virgin coconut oil exporter.

"Virgin Coconut Oil will not go rancid even at room temperatures in the tropics for a couple of years. Conversely, the refined oils that many Americans use are very unstable and turn rancid (oxidize) quickly. Oxidized oils are very toxic to the body and they can cause wide spread free-radical damage."


So I think ill stick to baby oil, {pharmecutical grade mineral oil.} at the time bieng, as it appears rancidity could become a problem even with the best coconut oil a few years down the line, when it eventualy does turn rancid.

But each to there own & if coconut works for you, thats great..

spiral


Thanks Spiral, I'll continue to watch things at home but I think you'll find the disclaimer refers to storage/expire date/shelf life of bulk liquids/solids not the very small amount it takes to wipe over dry objects which again in turn do dry with age.
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Old 1st August 2012, 04:21 PM   #17
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Thats Cool Then Gav.

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Old 1st August 2012, 05:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebooter


Gene, not to my knowledge



Gav


ROTF!!

Sorry mate
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Old 1st August 2012, 07:58 PM   #19
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[

Afternote ~ Did anyone notice the silver pins in the head of the khanjar at the 4th and 5th photo of #1 which appear to reflect the pattern of the Rhino Horn in the end or top of the hilt?

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi : 1st August 2012 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 1st August 2012, 08:14 PM   #20
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Thanks all, its interesting to know more about this piece!

Well I have some baby oil around but its scented, no good?
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Old 1st August 2012, 10:18 PM   #21
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Gav

Left out means room temperature. I bought a jar for making keris oil and within six months time it went rancid. I use Briwax which is a combination of bees wax and other waxes.
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Old 1st August 2012, 11:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.alnakkas
Thanks all, its interesting to know more about this piece!

Well I have some baby oil around but its scented, no good?


Its better than most vegtible based oils I understand,Ive certanly used it, perfumed baby oil will have solvents of .05 % or less usualy, wd40 is 55.% percent solvents though... massive differance in the decimal point.

Perfumed is very pure,better than most, nothing is purer than unperfumed though.

Given the scenario Id nearly dunk it in any oil to hand,just in case it was to much wd40, so perfumed baby oil would seem great to me, given the circustance,but thats just me...

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Old 1st August 2012, 11:24 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
[

Afternote ~ Did anyone notice the silver pins in the head of the khanjar at the 4th and 5th photo of #1 which appear to reflect the pattern of the Rhino Horn in the end or top of the hilt?


Indeed Ibrahiim, as does the actual blade shape of Yemini, Omani & other Arabian Pennisula Jambiya/Khanjar ive always thought.

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Old 1st August 2012, 11:47 PM   #24
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Ok so I oiled them, didnt put much though, made sure some is sucked in though. Hope I didnt screw up
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Old 2nd August 2012, 05:13 AM   #25
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I need to work on my photoskills :P
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Old 2nd August 2012, 10:20 AM   #26
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A little oil know & again should stop cracking due to most circumstances.

Nice collection! A plain one colour background will make the pieces stand out more clearly in photos.

Spiral
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Old 2nd August 2012, 07:32 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.alnakkas
I need to work on my photoskills :P




Salaams~ What do you know about the 2 Khanjars on the left of frame?
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 08:22 PM   #28
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Default The Penny Drops ... Clunk !

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.alnakkas
Hey guys,

So I finally had time to share this one. Its a nice rhino hilted Omani khanjar with a good blade. Blade was heavily rusted so cleaned it up but during the cleaning, some of the wd40 went inside the hilt and stained the rhino. Gav told me thats ok and it shouldnt damage the rhino though! :-)

How old is such a piece? interesting details in the silver work especially at the flowers etc. Certainly better work then most modern Omani stuff.



Salaams A.alnakkas ... I have had a good look under the scope at your Omani Khanjar. Do you notice anything strange about it such as the two pieces of thin leather strips between the silver work at the throat on the higher scabbard region? Did you figure out what the pins are in the back of the scabbard?

1. Muthaabi, Ibra, Bid Bid. The Dhakiliyya. The interior of Oman. That is where this peculiar technique of leather (Gild) comes from. Pinpoint accuracy!
2. The pins in the back are actually pins in the front of the khanjar in its original form... It (the hilt) has been turned around. Thus the brain teaser... I would add to the age another 10 years putting it out in the 60 year old vintage.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
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Old 3rd August 2012, 12:05 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Salaams~ What do you know about the 2 Khanjars on the left of frame?
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.


The top left one featured in this thread.

linky

So obviosly from the Yemen.

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Old 3rd August 2012, 12:14 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Salaams A.alnakkas ... I have had a good look under the scope at your Omani Khanjar. Do you notice anything strange about it such as the two pieces of thin leather strips between the silver work at the throat on the higher scabbard region? Did you figure out what the pins are in the back of the scabbard?


I havent really given it much thought :P

Quote:
1. Muthaabi, Ibra, Bid Bid. The Dhakiliyya. The interior of Oman. That is where this peculiar technique of leather (Gild) comes from. Pinpoint accuracy!


Its cloth. Wool I think. Will get pictures of the back side which has a slot for a work knife.

Quote:
2. The pins in the back are actually pins in the front of the khanjar in its original form... It (the hilt) has been turned around. Thus the brain teaser... I would add to the age another 10 years putting it out in the 60 year old vintage.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.


Possible, but whats your argument for that? I am personally not fussed about the age of this piece :P but I am interested in the rationale used to decide that the backside was once the front :-)
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