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Old 6th May 2012, 11:37 AM   #1
ariel
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Default Horn kris hilts

Is it just my ignorance or else, but I do not seem to remember many hilts made of buffalo horn.
Gardner mentions this material only re. K. Bahari.
Is it true? How specific is it?
Is it a sign of a recent production?
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Old 6th May 2012, 03:06 PM   #2
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Hello Ariel,

I have in my collection horn hilts from Java, Bali and Sumatra and have seen horn hilts from Sulawesi, all old or antique.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 6th May 2012, 03:43 PM   #3
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Some examples from my collection.

First two are from Java, third one from Bali, fourth from Sumatra (Minankabau), fitfth from Peninsula and the last again from Sumatra (again Minangkabau).

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 6th May 2012, 06:54 PM   #4
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Arrow

these are also old one's made of buffalo horn
(the Panjang has also the Warangka of horn)
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Old 6th May 2012, 08:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Some examples from my collection.

First two are from Java, third one from Bali, fourth from Sumatra (Minankabau), fitfth from Peninsula and the last again from Sumatra (again Minangkabau).

Regards,

Detlef


Hello Detlef,

Based on these pictures, I would guess the first 2 from java to be wood. (not horn)

Imho, buffalohorn hilts are most of the time found on "outer Island" type keris.
I have this example in my collection.


Best regards,
Willem
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Old 6th May 2012, 08:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asomotif
Hello Detlef,

Based on these pictures, I would guess the first 2 from java to be wood. (not horn)
Best regards,
Willem


Hello Willem,

I every time was sure about the material but when I look at the pictures I get doubts. Will test them and post the result here.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 7th May 2012, 08:35 AM   #7
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Some of the hilts shown appear recently made.
Attached are 3 specimens from my collection and made from black horn, 2 from Sumatra and one from Bali (with ivory inserts).
Regards
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Old 7th May 2012, 05:36 PM   #8
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Willem,

I have tested both Java hilts and both are from horn, I have burned small pieces from the pesi hole and the smell was typical.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 7th May 2012, 05:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
Some of the hilts shown appear recently made.
Regards


Hello Jean,

when you mean amongst others my Bali hilt you are wrong. When I bought it there was still a corroded broken piece of a pesi and hair inside the pesi hole and I need some time to get all out. From outside it have had a lot of dirt patina. Since the hilt is from horn I have cleaned it with water and soap.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 7th May 2012, 06:00 PM   #10
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Here a small Lampung hilt set together from two pieces of horn.
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Old 8th May 2012, 11:31 AM   #11
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In my experience when horn is very old it seems like wood. The testing by buning pin is really good to go away any doubts.
IMO Horn hilts are very common (albino horn a little less)
Very very very difficult to find is rhino horn, also shell and coral are difficult but not as rhino
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Old 8th May 2012, 12:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcokeris
Very very very difficult to find is rhino horn, also shell and coral are difficult but not as rhino


The hilt shown on the picture is deemed to be made from rhino horn but I am not fully sure about it although I am a little familiar with the materials which was also used on old khanjars and jambiyas. I did not perform the pin test but assume that it will be positive (burning smell) but not specific. Any opinion?
Regards
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Old 8th May 2012, 06:58 PM   #13
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Jean congraturation you are very lucky! It seems (from the little circles) real rhino!!
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Old 10th May 2012, 01:45 PM   #14
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I have been told this is rhino horn, but now I am not convinced.
Any idea ?
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Old 10th May 2012, 06:52 PM   #15
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Gio your hilt seems to me the same rhino horn material
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Old 11th May 2012, 06:27 AM   #16
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Gio, we need a close-up of a part where the grain has been cut (preferably close to a right angle) - a top view of the curved part should do.

At the moment, I'd guess it's kerbau or some other "real" horn.

Detlef, the pics are not sharp enough, I'm afraid. If you examine your hilt under magnification, it should be able to verify the material.

Regards,
Kai
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Old 11th May 2012, 06:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Detlef, the pics are not sharp enough, I'm afraid. If you examine your hilt under magnification, it should be able to verify the material.

Regards,
Kai



???
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Old 11th May 2012, 06:57 AM   #18
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Hello Detlef,

Sorry, I meant Jean and the hilt he posted above!

We need to see the endgrain: i. e. the top of the head of Jean's hilt (or the chin area or even the base of the hilt if clean/polished enough).

Easier to examine/see when actually handling a piece. A 10x magnifying glass (jeweller's loupe) does help a lot.

Regards,
Kai
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Old 11th May 2012, 07:01 AM   #19
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BTW, Gio, looks like a nicely carved hilt! Could you post more pics of this hilt (and preferably the whole keris) in a seperate thread, please? Thanks!

Regards,
Kai
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Old 11th May 2012, 07:02 AM   #20
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As Kai already explained, identifying rhino is not that simple from pictures.
If I look at Jean's pictures I would guess that it is old worn antler.

Sharper pictures of all angles are helpfull.

Translucity of rhino is also an important aspect.

Best regards,
Willem
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Old 11th May 2012, 08:08 AM   #21
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Sharper pictures won't be very helpful but I agree that my hilt could be made from old antler or whale bone from the "dots", see the left side which has a more whitish colour on the surface. The translucence is indeed a specific feature of rhino horn but it is not always visible.
Regards
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Last edited by Jean : 11th May 2012 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 11th May 2012, 04:38 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai
Hello Detlef,

Sorry, I meant Jean and the hilt he posted above!

Regards,
Kai


Hello Kai,

have thought like this but was unsure!

Regards,

Detlef
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