Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 4th May 2012, 09:59 AM   #1
SwordsAntiqueWeapons
Member
 
SwordsAntiqueWeapons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 2,020
Send a message via MSN to SwordsAntiqueWeapons
Default A fine Hausa dagger with Rhino hilt

Having shared this with a couple of members I thought other might like to view this piece.

A large, fine and well preserved Rhino hilted Hausa dagger for discussion.

The sheath is well constructed with fine croc skin and tooled leather.
The hilt is cut from the dark centre of the horn with the reverse being nearly black.
The flared section of the hilt that joins the blade is about 8mm tall and is a seperate piece of horn.
The blade shows numerous designs to one side and few to the reverse.

Whilst Hausa daggers are not uncommon, I can not recall seeing another Rhino hilted dagger of this type.

Gav
Attached Images
   
SwordsAntiqueWeapons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2012, 02:59 PM   #2
Martin Lubojacky
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 465
Default

Hi Gavin,

I would say, because of the hilt, that this dagger is comming from Sudan - I mean from what is now the Republic of the Sudan - myabe from Darfur ?? (not Sudan meant as the Sahel region even in the West Africa, and probably also not new South Sudan). Also from this reason I am not convinced it is Hausa dagger. The style of the blade and especially the sheath is relatively common for nearly the whole Sahel region, but the hilt is very specific and unique. I am very interested in other forumites´opinion.

Regards,

martin
Martin Lubojacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2012, 03:43 PM   #3
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: England UK.
Posts: 4,666
Default

Agreed South Sudan.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2012, 03:50 PM   #4
Martin Lubojacky
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 465
Default

BTW, envy, envy...
You are lucky to have such dagger. Congratulations
Martin
Martin Lubojacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2012, 05:23 PM   #5
TVV
Member
 
TVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 933
Default

Nothing to add other than congratulations on what is a beautiful dagger in its entirety. When it comes to Sahelian daggers, I do not think it gets much better than this one.
Teodor
TVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th May 2012, 05:46 PM   #6
VANDOO
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: OKLAHOMA, USA
Posts: 2,445
Thumbs up

A REAL BEAUTY. FIRST RATE ALL THE WAY, GREAT BLADE WITH DESIGNS EXCEPTIONALLY WELL MADE SCABBARD WITH GREAT DESIGNS, AND TO TOP IT OFF A VERY WELL SHAPED RHINO HANDLE. IT DOSEN'T GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT. CONGRADULATIONS AND THANKS FOR SHOWING IT.
VANDOO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2012, 07:13 AM   #7
SwordsAntiqueWeapons
Member
 
SwordsAntiqueWeapons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 2,020
Send a message via MSN to SwordsAntiqueWeapons
Default The black heart

Thanks chaps.

Attached is an over exposed image of the reverse and an image of the black heart of Rhino horn.

It is interesting that the hilt profile is the classic Luristan dagger and shortsword type.

I would certainly like to explore the aspects that draw the Sudan and South Sudan regions as a point of origin.

Martin, thank your the congrats. When mentioning the hilt, is it the hilt profile of the hilt material that helps your conclusions? Tim, please do offer more too if possible. I ask as the trade throughout the Sahel is massive and near impossible to grasp in its entirity.

Teodor, Barry, thanks

As a note, not that I'd expect it to be used as such but it makes for an interesting long push dagger with this hilt.

Thanks

Gav
Attached Images
  

Last edited by freebooter : 5th May 2012 at 07:39 AM.
SwordsAntiqueWeapons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2012, 08:21 AM   #8
colin henshaw
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 789
Default

Hi Gav

Very nice dagger, especially with the sheath. As already stated by others, its from Southern Sudan (Darfur ?). From memory I think there is one illustrated in the Oldman Collection book and the Egerton book.

Regards.
colin henshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2012, 10:02 AM   #9
SwordsAntiqueWeapons
Member
 
SwordsAntiqueWeapons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 2,020
Send a message via MSN to SwordsAntiqueWeapons
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by colin henshaw
Hi Gav

Very nice dagger, especially with the sheath. As already stated by others, its from Southern Sudan (Darfur ?). From memory I think there is one illustrated in the Oldman Collection book and the Egerton book.

Regards.


Indeed you are correct with your references Colin, thank you for providing them. Egerton notes it as bought in Assouan and being used in Kordofan....not a reference I thought to turn to.

Thanks

Gav
SwordsAntiqueWeapons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2012, 10:21 AM   #10
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 4,069
Default

Hello Gav,

what a beauty! Not my field of collecting but when I see such a nice dagger I am in case of doubt!

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2012, 01:16 PM   #11
Martin Lubojacky
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 465
Default

Material is material - could be expensive, cheap, rare etc..... But I was thinking about the hilt profile. This is just empiric experience -I saw such hilts profile very seldom, always only on pictures, never "in natura", and usually described as rare - and always more expensive than other daggers or short swords from Sudan. From this I would say that this dagger was used by smaller comunity than Hausa or Tebbu or others(generally that the number of such daggers produced was smaller/?)Regards,
Martin
Martin Lubojacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th May 2012, 05:30 PM   #12
colin henshaw
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 789
Default

After a bit of searching I managed to dig out this old image of another, but longer, example of this type of dagger, for comparison.

Regards.
Attached Images
 
colin henshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 09:20 AM   #13
Martin Lubojacky
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Czech Republic
Posts: 465
Default

I have shown the picture to the native Sudenese and he consulted it with his friend - collector in Sudan. Based on this the daggers with such hilt were used during the "Mahdia times" and they are comming from what is North Kordofan now (North Kordofan as one of the States of the Republic of the Sudan ("north Sudan")).
Martin Lubojacky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2012, 08:28 PM   #14
Lew
(deceased)
 
Lew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast USA
Posts: 3,191
Default

Here is an ivory hilted one which is probably mid 20th century for comparison. It's not as nice as Gav's
Attached Images
 
Lew is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 07:55 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.