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Old 19th April 2012, 03:53 PM   #1
katana
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Default Sumantran Keris ??

Hi,
I don't often post on this forum, but just acquired this Keris. Heavily rusted, pictures show blade after a 'good' initial clean. Is the parmor a recognised type ?

Please, any ideas as to age and origins ? ....is it a tourist piece ? Would a keris be catagorised differently due to the 'pistol hilt' grip ?

Sorry for all the questions but my knowledge is very limited on these. All comments greatfully received, thank you

Kind Regards David


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Old 19th April 2012, 03:59 PM   #2
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Blade is Bugis type and handle is more Sumatra IMHO. The blade have a typical pamor for Bugis blades called ujung gunung.

Here a similar handle from my collection.

Regards,

Detlef
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Last edited by Sajen : 19th April 2012 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 19th April 2012, 04:25 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Blade is Bugis type and handle is more Sumatra IMHO. The blade have a typical pamor for Bugis blades called ujung gunung.

Here a similar handle from my collection.

Regards,

Detlef



Hi Detlef,
thank you for the quick reply Nice handle, it seems to be made from a similar 'striped' wood, do you know what it is called ? Can I assume that this Keris is not a tourist piece ?

Kind Regards
David
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Old 20th April 2012, 05:37 AM   #4
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Hilt is Sumatran . Look at photos from one similar I have .

Henri
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Old 20th April 2012, 07:29 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katana
Hi Detlef,
thank you for the quick reply Nice handle, it seems to be made from a similar 'striped' wood, do you know what it is called ? Can I assume that this Keris is not a tourist piece ?

Kind Regards
David


Hi David,

no, it's not a tourist piece! The wood is kemuning!

Best regards,

Detlef
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Old 20th April 2012, 05:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henri
Hilt is Sumatran . Look at photos from one similar I have .

Henri


Henri,
Your kris is a typical Minangkabau piece from West Sumatra with a simple bahari style blade (straight, thick, and without pamor). The hilt is more stylized than usually.
Regards
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Old 20th April 2012, 08:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
Henri,
Your kris is a typical Minangkabau piece from West Sumatra with a simple bahari style blade (straight, thick, and without pamor). The hilt is more stylized than usually.
Regards


Complete agreement!
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Old 20th April 2012, 08:58 PM   #8
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Yes Jean , Minangkabau . Just showing similarity for the " front face " .

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Old 20th April 2012, 08:59 PM   #9
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oups .. photos now
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Old 20th April 2012, 09:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henri
oups .. photos now


The hilt from your keris is the same motif in general but different from the hilt David have posted.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 21st April 2012, 01:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Hi David,

no, it's not a tourist piece! The wood is kemuning!

Best regards,

Detlef


Hi Detlef,
that's great, thank you.

Does the type of wood, Kemuning have any significance or spiritual 'power' ? What does the design of the Sumartran hilt represent ?

Kind Regards David
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Old 21st April 2012, 01:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henri
Hilt is Sumatran . Look at photos from one similar I have .

Henri



Hi Henri,
thats a very nice example , are the fittings silver ? Mine only has a brass collar (broken) as shown in the original pictures in my first post.

Can you have a situation where two Keris can have the same quality blade and hilt but the fittings can vary greatly in value / cost ? Or are the more expensive fittings only placed on the better/best quality blades ?

Kind Regards
David
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Old 21st April 2012, 02:57 AM   #13
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Hi David
Yes , Silver fittings . Personally I privilege the overall look of the hilt + blade + sheath trying to match the whole lot . Like a costume from shoes to hat . If a piece of garment is not in relation with the others ... terrible ! That s from my French background a long time go .
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Old 21st April 2012, 12:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Blade is Bugis type and handle is more Sumatra IMHO. The blade have a typical pamor for Bugis blades called ujung gunung.
Regards,

Detlef


Has anybody a clear idea about the origin of this blade? For me it looks Sumatran and it has some Bugis influence but is not typically Bugis (ganja iras, shape of the sor-soran, kembang kacang and greneng, the dapur is not clearly sepokal, etc...).
Regards
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Old 21st April 2012, 01:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katana
Hi Detlef,
that's great, thank you.

Does the type of wood, Kemuning have any significance or spiritual 'power' ? What does the design of the Sumartran hilt represent ?

Kind Regards David



Hi David,

don't think that the kemuning wood have any signifiance or spiritual power, it is a nice and good expensive wood, that's "all" IMHO.

This hilts are called kerdas, some people believe that it shall present garuda but this I would take personally with a pinch of salt.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 21st April 2012, 02:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean
Has anybody a clear idea about the origin of this blade? For me it looks Sumatran and it has some Bugis influence but is not typically Bugis (ganja iras, shape of the sor-soran, kembang kacang and greneng, the dapur is not clearly sepokal, etc...).
Regards



Hello Jean,

it was just my uneducated guess! Agree with you that it is not clear a typical Bugis blade and since it seems to be a original ensemble (hilt and blade) it is most probable that it is a Bugis influenced Sumatra keris respectively blade. BTW it is not so uncommon to see "Bugis" blades which are iras, see for example this keris from my collection: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11592
Of course it seems difficult to fix down the exact origin of this keris without sheath.
Would be very interesting to read the opinion from Kei Wee or Alam Shah about this blade.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 21st April 2012, 02:31 PM   #17
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Here are again some pictures from my iras "Bugis" blade. BTW the pamor of this blade seems to be very similar with the pamor from Davids blade.

Regards,

Detlef
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