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Old 26th March 2012, 05:47 PM   #1
Spiridonov
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Default Mace-handgonne

Bronze mace-handgonne was found in Ukraine in Винницкая область. This mace have iron partition which split mace-head on barrel and socket for fixing on a pole
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Old 26th March 2012, 06:24 PM   #2
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That's an unbelievable find indeed!

Where is this item now, and are there better photos?

Best,
Michael

Last edited by Matchlock : 26th March 2012 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 26th March 2012, 07:36 PM   #3
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Fascinating specimen indeed !
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Old 26th March 2012, 08:05 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiridonov
This mace have iron partition which split mace-head on barrel


Hi Alexender,

I do not quite understand what you mean by 'iron partition' - I cannot detect any iron parts and I believe that the item is all cast-bronze.

m
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Old 26th March 2012, 08:08 PM   #5
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If I were to assign a date to this, I would - based on the period artwork attached by Alexender - say 'around 1470', give or take a decade or two.

m

Last edited by Matchlock : 26th March 2012 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 26th March 2012, 08:18 PM   #6
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We need to look at maces typology... I think, that shape of mace head would help us to determine the correct date.
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Old 26th March 2012, 09:42 PM   #7
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I'm afraid all it would provide would be another terminus post quem.

As studies in combination weapons have proved - and this was doubtlessly a combined weapon - , they seem to reflect the earliest possible shapes of the basic (!) weapon.

This means that when you investigate a combined mace and wheellock gun, the mace head - as a relic of the basic weapon - will reflect the latest development of maces while the wheellock will closely mirror the taste of the period of actual manufacture.

I will do research into the shape of the flanges on the mace head, as I have been planning on getting back to this topic soon anyway, with good basic material of course.

What I can state with authority today is the fact that the pronounced sectioning of this barrel points toward the end of the 15th century. No such sectioning by moldings or other stages can be found on pre-1460 barrels.

For today, I would like to link you with

http://otlichnik.tripod.com/medmace3.html

The attached 14th-15th c. samples, which come pretty close to our combination weaon in discussion, are from this site.

On the other hand - and this I hope makes the dichotomy understood that I have been talking about - , they are very close to the sample attached, ca. 1500!

And: in order to make the similarity of mace heads thru the millenniums perfectly clear, please see here for a nearly identical Byzantine sample, 12th-15th c. (attachments at bottom):

http://www.google.de/imgres?q=mace+...s:0&tx=30&ty=58


Best,
Michael
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Last edited by Matchlock : 26th March 2012 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 26th March 2012, 10:21 PM   #8
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This is awesome! But how would you use it in battle? Long fuse and just keep pointing at the enemy until it went?
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Old 26th March 2012, 10:37 PM   #9
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This important question is of course basic: how did it actually work?

Sadly, I cannot explain either.

Of course, the armored knight in the piece of period artwork attached was obviously not able to fire his combined mace and gun single-handed. How he could have possibly done this on horseback is left to speculation. Even if he did not have the reins in the other hand, this would have had to be much longer than the one that held the club, in order to reach the touch hole!

This leads to the basic question about the practical use of almost all Medieval and Renaissance combined weapons. I am afraid that most of them were mere fantasy put into reality by arts and crafts, but totally useless and inefficient. The Early Renaissance taste, based on a brand-new self-consciousness, Renaissance man was keen to make virtually any idea become reality - totally regardless of its use. In art history, this phenomenon is called ludus globi - the unlimited philosophic play of the mind which maked the world a toy. Any device was realized just to prove that it could be done, by the human mind.

Please also check an absolutely stunning and wonderful piece in my collection, similar ones - exactly as useless as this but ordered for Henry VIII's armory in about 1540 - are preserved in the Tower of London, the Royal Armouries Leeds and the Met:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showt...ht=meyrick+mace


Best,
Michael

Last edited by Matchlock : 27th March 2012 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 27th March 2012, 06:07 PM   #10
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Hah, that would be interesting. There are certainly plenty of guns and knives made today that are rather impractical but are made for fun and experimentation.
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Old 27th March 2012, 07:34 PM   #11
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And I thought these things were extinct.

m
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Old 28th March 2012, 12:45 PM   #12
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I wished to give the source of the period artwork posted by Alexender in post #1.

It is taken from the cod. germ. 734, dated to ca. 1460-70, a so-called Büchsenmeisterei-Buch (book on gunnery), preserved in the Bayerische Staatsbibliothek Munich.

Concerning our interests, it also contains the illustrations attached.

m
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