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Old 11th April 2011, 06:43 PM   #1
Sajen
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Default Big sized Indonesian Tombak

Hello Members,

yesterday I have won by e-bay this very big indonesian tombak, i think from Java. I have never seen a big one like this but the pictures tell me (I hope and cross my fingers) that it is an old original one. What do you think? Someone can tell me more? Pictures from the seller and the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...RK%3AMEWNX%3AIT

Like every time many thank's in advance,

Detlef
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Old 11th April 2011, 07:11 PM   #2
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Nice piece - would be better if you could etch the blade to bring out the pamor.
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Old 12th April 2011, 03:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
Nice piece - would be better if you could etch the blade to bring out the pamor.


Hello Jose,

the blade will get an etch and the sheath will be restored. Hope, that the blade have a nice pamor!

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 12th April 2011, 11:24 PM   #4
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A nice piece.

You know how much I dislike trying to classify blades from photos, but I think I'm prepared to offer an opinion on this one. Based upon the form of the metuk, form of rondha, and size, I believe this can be classified as Tuban. Tuban blades of all types were very substantial, and the metuk and rondha are much closer to Tuban form than any other.

I would hope that when this has been cleaned and stained we see Tuban material.

Detlef, believe me:- you do not want the blade to have a "nice pamor"; you want it to have a typical Tuban pamor which will be wos wutah or ngulit semongko, rather coarse, heavily veined, and smooth to the touch. If you're real lucky the pamor might be hair-like, and then we can attribute to Mpu Bekeljati.
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Old 13th April 2011, 01:11 AM   #5
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Hello Alan,

thank you very much for your comment! Have I written that I wish to see a nice pamor after staining? I wish to see a hair-like wos wutah or ngulit semongko! Now I can't wait to hold it in my hands. That are very good news.


Regards,

Detlef
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Old 16th April 2011, 01:41 PM   #6
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Hi detlef,


Very nice and intresting tombak you have .

Can,t wait to see it after cleaning and the stain
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Old 16th April 2011, 01:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danny1976
Hi detlef,


Very nice and intresting tombak you have .

Can,t wait to see it after cleaning and the stain


Hi Danny,

thank you but first I have to wait until I have received it!

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 16th July 2011, 10:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
A nice piece.

You know how much I dislike trying to classify blades from photos, but I think I'm prepared to offer an opinion on this one. Based upon the form of the metuk, form of rondha, and size, I believe this can be classified as Tuban. Tuban blades of all types were very substantial, and the metuk and rondha are much closer to Tuban form than any other.

I would hope that when this has been cleaned and stained we see Tuban material.

Detlef, believe me:- you do not want the blade to have a "nice pamor"; you want it to have a typical Tuban pamor which will be wos wutah or ngulit semongko, rather coarse, heavily veined, and smooth to the touch. If you're real lucky the pamor might be hair-like, and then we can attribute to Mpu Bekeljati.



Hello Alan,

the tombak is stained and it seems that you have been correct, the pamor is like you supposed and the touch is indeed very smooth. What do you think, is it possible that this tombak is from Mpu Bekeljati?

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 17th July 2011, 10:15 AM   #9
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Hi Detlef, nice piece also with that scabbard! I am no expert on Indonesian arms but it looks quite appealing. Although I do find it a bit worrying to have removed that wonderfull patine to see the pamor; but thats just me I guess. Did you know that with toothpaste one can clean very graduatly with the keeping of some patine? Congrats w your buy.
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Old 17th July 2011, 01:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianajones
Hi Detlef, nice piece also with that scabbard! I am no expert on Indonesian arms but it looks quite appealing. Although I do find it a bit worrying to have removed that wonderfull patine to see the pamor; but thats just me I guess. Did you know that with toothpaste one can clean very graduatly with the keeping of some patine? Congrats w your buy.



Hi Indiana,

thank you, the trick with toothpaste I know but keris and tomak blades need with a very few exceptions a proper stain!

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 17th July 2011, 05:32 PM   #11
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Detlef, you've just been a staining fool lately...
Another nice job on an nice interesting tombak.
@Indiana....collecting tosan aji weapons tends to follow different rules than many other types of blades. These blades are traditional cleaned and re-stained on a regular basis within the culture they come from and it usually is not considered desirable to maintain and aged patina on the blade surfaces. The pamor patterns are culturally important and meant to be seen, not hidden by years of dirt and wear.
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Old 18th July 2011, 01:37 AM   #12
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I'm looking for a core and I don't see one .

Is this tombak made entirely from pamor material ?
I notice the methuk is integral .
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Old 19th July 2011, 05:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
I'm looking for a core and I don't see one .

Is this tombak made entirely from pamor material ?


Hello Rick,

yes it seems like this. Here two closeups from pesi-side.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 10th June 2012, 04:25 PM   #14
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Here two pictures with the restored sheath!
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Old 10th June 2012, 06:29 PM   #15
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Nice job .
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Old 10th June 2012, 07:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick
Nice job .


Thank's!
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Old 10th June 2012, 07:55 PM   #17
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What a stunner! You do seem to have an <o> for 'jewels'
David; oke thanks for the insight; (yes am not 'in to' kerisses)
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Old 10th June 2012, 08:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianajones
You do seem to have an <o> for 'jewels'


Hope so! And hope that I don't losing it.
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Old 11th June 2012, 12:53 AM   #19
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congratulations Detlef
even if my knowledge is nil, concerning these weapons
I may appreciated the artistic beauty of the blade and scabbard

your refurbishment is really a must, and I like it,,
for me, handles, hilts, and blades, must be cleaned and maintained on a regular basis, as well as ... the scabbard
the edged weapon's vocation, is to be "lethal", also we must keep them in good order,
ready to use, and not as something, completely rusty and looks as a junk

the "patina" it's good, with bronze artifacts from archaeological material,
I mean being old for at least 10 centuries and more, green patina, even the brown, has a "charm", but
our weapons, aren't old as well, may be even, have been used by our great-grandfather
they should be proud, to see how we are taking care about them

thanks to have share with us

+

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Old 11th June 2012, 03:38 AM   #20
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Great work indeed! Love the pamor!
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Old 11th June 2012, 01:23 PM   #21
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Sajen, actually I would love to know what this blade was actually used for 'tribally'. I read I am not d only novice on kerises etc. (thankfully)
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Old 11th June 2012, 04:29 PM   #22
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Dom and Jose, thank's for your kind words!
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Old 11th June 2012, 04:36 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianajones
Sajen, actually I would love to know what this blade was actually used for 'tribally'. I read I am not d only novice on kerises etc. (thankfully)


Hello Wouter,

can't answer your query with certain but I think heirloom and representation are a factor. I think tombaks are in this matter very similar with keris. Alan G. Maisey or our Indonesian members will be able to give a more qualified answer.
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Old 12th June 2012, 12:46 AM   #24
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In Jawa tombak were a more generally used weapon than the keris, and although a tombak can have a pusaka character, it does not encapsulate the same, or even similar cultural roots nor values as the keris.

For simplicity think "weapon". However, for a very long time that weapon has usually been kept without its shaft, which can be between 2 and 4 meters or more in length, making it very inconvenient to keep in an ordinary house, usually tombak are now mounted on short display shafts or as daggers.

Rulers and lords used to keep armouries stocked with tombak that were issued to levies in times of conflict, but ordinary people also kept tombak for personal defence as well as duty when called upon. In Jawa poorer people would simply use a sharpened bambu stake instead of a tombak with an iron blade.
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Old 12th June 2012, 06:37 PM   #25
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Hello Alan,

thank you very much for the given informations!

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 16th June 2012, 10:06 PM   #26
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Indeed interesting. So originally I should 'picture these' with a long hardwood shaft and a brass ferrule?
I do know that this particular shape of spear (of Detlefs' tombak) is in many parts of Asia used specially for warfare. As for killing boar and fancy spears often have other forms. (if anyone has ever noticed n studied)

Best, Wouter
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Old 17th June 2012, 03:34 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianajones
So originally I should 'picture these' with a long hardwood shaft and a brass ferrule?



Correct, the ferrule can be from silver also!
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Old 17th June 2012, 03:47 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianajones
I do know that this particular shape of spear (of Detlefs' tombak) is in many parts of Asia used specially for warfare. As for killing boar and fancy spears often have other forms. (if anyone has ever noticed n studied)


Maybe it is important to add that this size of tombak is a little bit unusual in my limited experience.
Here a picture with two other javanese tombak from my collection.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 1st July 2012, 06:59 PM   #29
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It is a huge improvement.
Do different people use different substances to etch and restain pamor blades or would that be sacrilege?

Last edited by David : 1st July 2012 at 07:47 PM. Reason: oops! ignore, hit edit instead of quote
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Old 1st July 2012, 07:47 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantia
It is a huge improvement.
Do different people use different substances to etch and restain pamor blades or would that be sacrilege?

I am going to be lazy here Gene and simply suggest to check the archives. We have has so many threads on keris blade staining along with discussions on the use of warangan vs. other possible staining methods.
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