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Old 28th May 2009, 05:52 PM   #1
HangPC2
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Default Unknown Pedang Melayu (Malay Sword) ?





Sources : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECicAduPJ_w






Location : Historical Museum of Kuala Selangor
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Old 28th May 2009, 08:05 PM   #2
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That's a pedang jenawi, according to Gardner.
It's usually a Japanese katana blade in local fittings or sometimes a Chinese blade.
Gardner speculates that some of them are left overs from Japanese mercenaries employed both by the Portuguese and the Dutch.

Michael

PS Garder's book is from 1936. Of course a lot more Japanese swords entered Malaysia during WWII. One of the Singapore-based Silat styles use the katana in their curriculum, according to an old video (I have somewhere).

Last edited by VVV : 28th May 2009 at 08:53 PM. Reason: added PS
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Old 29th May 2009, 08:10 AM   #3
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Hullo everybody,

Akum HangPC2.

The sword in your picture apparently follows the katana form. Samurai-type swords were popular among Occidental travellers/'tourists' during the 19thC. This induced some local foundaries in the archipelago to manufacture them. One such enterprise was in the Soenda village of Tjikeroeh (Tatar Soenda/Pasoendan/Parahijangan), which started to produce them in the 1850s. (This tapered off in the 1890s, when Tjikeroeh switched to producing the more-familiar scimitar/sabre/cutlass -style swords.)
During the Japanese occupation, local militias/heiho were allowed to train using real edged-weapons but wooden firearms. Needless to say, a lot of these edged-weapons which were newly-produced, were samurai-type.
I have attached pix of such swords in my collection (apologies for the poor quality).The one on top is inscribed in Arabic along the blade and date-stamped 1945-46. The bottom one has the guard embossed with GPII (Gerakan Pemoeda Islam Indonesia) and dated 1946.

Best,
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Old 4th July 2009, 09:24 AM   #4
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Pedang DiRaja (Malaysia Royal Regalia Sword)












Sources : http://www.malaysianmonarchy.org.my...j.php?id=rk4_11
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Old 5th July 2009, 06:43 PM   #5
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i think the japanese stype dates far back as ive seen very old japanese swordswith thai and burmese fittings, and the fittings look several 100 years old, also phillipine swords with japanese blades.. i can imagine that at one point japanese traders and mercenaries and pirates were common all over eastern asia.
many vietnamese swords use japanese blades also.
to be honest although in the past the japanese imported korean and chinese blades .. it seems a long time back the japanese surpassed the chinese in the export of their blades. as you can see many chinese swords with japanese blades also, or japanese style and japanese blades seem far more common in south east asia than chinese.
i suppose after ww2 all the "jap towns" in asia were pretty much destroyed by the local populations and so there is little evidence of these once numerous japanese settlements
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Old 7th July 2009, 07:43 PM   #6
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Then we have this East Sumatran sword - Pelitai(?).
I have always thought that its blade was inspired by a japanese sword.

Michael
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Old 20th August 2009, 03:51 AM   #8
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Pedang


From Malaysian State '' Negeri Kedah Darul Aman ''


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Old 20th August 2009, 11:34 AM   #9
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It seems to be a variation of the more universal pedang design?
Btw, does 19th C blades from Kedah have any special, local features?
I never noticed it myself when I was there in the early 90´s.

Michael
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Old 3rd September 2009, 04:39 AM   #10
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Silats biggest secrets finally revealed



Amir Hafizi

Thursday, August 27th, 2009 04:02:00




Word on the street has it that the silat tradition of mandi minyak or 'hot-oil bath' practised by silat exponents is a scam.

Underneath the layer of oil, as the story has it, is water. Water and oil don’t mix and each has a different boiling temperature. So, when you heat up a water and oil concoction in a big wok, the water, which boils first, gives the illusion that the oil is a bubbling hot liquid that would scald.

“That's what we thought!” said Khairun Lamb. “But Justin (Ong) and I, we were at the site of the ceremony since beginning, and it was all oil, all the way, and it was really, really scalding hot! That’s just one of the things that surprised us when we were making the documentary.”

Khairun is the director of photography and co producer for a team commissioned by National Geographic Channel to do a documentary on the traditional Malaysian martial art of silat. The result is Fight Masters: Silat, set to be premiered this Merdeka Day on the National Geographic Channel.



Joel performing the 'hot-oil bath' or mandi minyak ritual


The documentary follows American silat exponent Joel Champ who has been studying martial arts since he was seven, as he gets his next stripe in his belt — stripe being a level in silat.

The 32-year-old US Navy dry land sailor and master-at-arms fell in love with silat some 15 odd-years ago.

“In silat, it is said that the student doesn't search for the master. The master will seek the student, only when he is ready,” said producer and director Justin Ong.

“Joel was approached by Cikgu Sam — Tan Sri SM Salim's son - in the States and he never looked back, discarding all other forms of martial arts in favour of silat. Joel is in fact the highest-graded silat exponent in the western world.

“However, his training was a bit soft,” said Khairun. “He was practicing in air-conditioned gyms, and had paddings on the floor.

“He wanted to experience what it was like in the birthplace of silat, so we didn't spare him anything. It would have cheated him if we did.”

Then, Khairun added, with a mischievous grin on his face, “And this look he had when it was revealed that traditional silat practice only has sand to fall onto, and training is done outdoors, in the sweltering heat and torturous humidity.”

The project began when silat was chosen as one of the martial arts to be featured on Fight Masters.

“We went on a pitching process to National Geographic and the production company commissioned by them,” said Ong. “Then, a three-month research and two weeks of shooting, and then six to eight months of post- production. We made changes after changes when we discovered new things about silat. Overall, it took a year. And it wasn't easy. Every single line had to be verified by at least two sources.”

That's how stringent the standards are for National Geographic documentaries. And yet, it was a golden opportunity for Ong and for Khairun who even though has done numerous work for international networks such as NHK, Discovery Channel, ABC News, Al-Jazeera, Channel News Asia, has yet to do something about Malaysia.

“I wanted to do this because I have done so many things for other countries,” said Khairun. “I thought it was time I got involved with something for Malaysia.

“Doing this documentary basically taught us a lot about silat,” said Ong. “It was a martial arts that was developed for its practical uses, so we don't see any flying kicks or stylish moves. Everything has its use. Everything is effective. Even spitting at someone's face is a move that could determine the outcome of a fight.

“We also inserted a lot of CGI to show the scientific effects of some silat moves and the force of the blow. We were very lucky as Cikgu Sam convinced the masters in Malaysia to reveal some of their closely-guarded secrets and the moves they rarely show outsiders. We then put some experts to the task of taking a medical and physical explanation why it works that way. It's the science behind the art,” said Khairun.

“It's silat as you've never seen before!” interjected Ong.

However, the team does concede that the sheer scope of the documentary was narrowed down somewhat as the story of silat could not be encapsulated in just one documentary.

“We only have 47 minutes, and it’s jam-packed with as much information as we can,” said Khairun. “So it’s more of an introduction to silat. We covered Silat Gayung as it is the most established, and there are many other schools and styles out there.”

All the more reason, then, to give these guys another chance to cover silat again. This time, perhaps a whole series?

• Fight Masters : Silat will be shown on National Geographic Channel at 9pm on Merdeka Day, Aug 31 (premiere), Sept 11 and Sept 15.



- Malay Mail -



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Old 3rd September 2009, 05:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVV
It seems to be a variation of the more universal pedang design?
Btw, does 19th C blades from Kedah have any special, local features?
I never noticed it myself when I was there in the early 90´s.

Michael



Pedang (qala'i) '' Al-sayf al-Qadaram @ al-sayf al-Hind " (Pedang Kedah @ Pedang Hindi)


The Malay Peninsula: Crossroads of the Maritime Silk Road (100 BC-1300 AD)




By Michel Jacq-Hergoualc'h, Victoria Hobson



http://books.google.com.my/books?id...NUrf5sLLIUNr7Dg
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Old 4th September 2009, 10:21 AM   #12
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Pedang Jenawi & Pedang Buaya Berenang










Sources : http://mded.multiply.com/photos/album/53/Pedang_Melayu















Sources : http://samajadi.multiply.com/
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Old 27th September 2009, 05:01 AM   #13
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Pedang Jenawi & Sundang Lipas







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Old 11th October 2009, 05:47 PM   #14
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Pedang @ Sundang as a Malay weapon


In Malaysian the Pedang @ Sundang is the only two-edged sword of any importance, The straight one-edged sword with blade or even width is called the Malay peninsular Chenangkas and in Jawa Lamang. A heavier, two handed sword is called Berandal in Borneo where it is most usually found. The Chinese and Japanese two handed sword is know as Jenawi.

Some chenangkas have a metal cross piece at right angles to the axis of the hilt, perhaps to prevent the hand sliding up the hilt when the weapon is wielded by wrist pressure. Some are undoubtedly of recent manufacture and may be fakes.

Of the greater interest, and usually of finer workmanship too, is the curved sword known to the Malay as Shamsir. This term is strictly applicable to only to the curved saber or scimitar of Persian origin. The Indian shamsir or tulwar is a cross-hilted sword. The hilt is usually of brass, sometimes of iron or silver, with pommel at the end to prevent the hand slipping when drawing cut is made. The pommel is large and hollow for lightness’ sake so that the balance of the sword is not upset.



Sources : http://malaykris.blogspot.com/



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Old 6th February 2010, 03:00 AM   #15
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NGC Fight Master - Silat



Pedang Jenawi (Sundang) Training













Sources : http://narapatinantaboga.blogspot.com/

http://dcmilitary.com/stories/07160...ent_28201.shtml



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Old 21st April 2010, 04:28 PM   #16
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Pedang Jenawi







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Old 13th October 2010, 02:03 AM   #17
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Old 26th October 2011, 01:51 AM   #18
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[size=4]Pedang Jenawi Kelantan[/






Photos and links deleted. Please no hot links to photos and no links to twitter and other blogs

Last edited by Lew : 26th October 2011 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 26th October 2011, 11:28 AM   #19
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Pedang Jenawi.... Eerily reminiscent of the straight-bladed variant of Moroccan Koummya, called Janwi, - genovese.
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Old 17th March 2012, 09:59 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVV
That's a pedang jenawi, according to Gardner.
It's usually a Japanese katana blade in local fittings or sometimes a Chinese blade.
Gardner speculates that some of them are left overs from Japanese mercenaries employed both by the Portuguese and the Dutch.

Michael

PS Garder's book is from 1936. Of course a lot more Japanese swords entered Malaysia during WWII. One of the Singapore-based Silat styles use the katana in their curriculum, according to an old video (I have somewhere).






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0lD_L5Ikd
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Old 16th April 2012, 10:31 AM   #21
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Pedang Jenawi Patani



Origin : Pattani (Sultanate Patani / Ayutthaya Period)



















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Old 17th April 2012, 04:21 PM   #22
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In a lecture at the Leeds Royal Armoury some time ago, Ian Bottomly quoted a figure of over 100,000 blades a year being exported from Japan to China, during the Edo period. Not surprising if they turn up all over East Asia in different forms.
One of the swords on display in the Chinese section of the RA is a Nodachi blade mounted Chinese style, with a leather wrapped hilt nearly as long as the blade. Oddly enough, the tang had been re forged into a long form and peened over at the pommel, Chinese style rather than Japanese.
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Old 29th January 2013, 08:31 AM   #23
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People often think that single edge and curvature are attributes of Japanese blades, thus south east asian must have borrowed those elements from the Japanese. However, there are many solid evidence pointing out that the curved blade has been around in this region ages prior to first contact with Japanese.


For example, this is a 13th century blade from Vietnam : the way the hilt is not detachable from the blade is fundamentally different from the common Japanese blade





Hi res picture

http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/...xa/DSC04505.jpg
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Old 2nd February 2013, 03:22 PM   #24
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Le Dynasty's Blade - 17th & 18th Century





Hi res picture

http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/...xa/DSC04457.jpg






Hi res picture

http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/...xa/DSC04459.jpg

Last edited by HangPC2 : 2nd February 2013 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 21st February 2013, 10:52 AM   #25
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KD Panglima Hitam







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Old 2nd March 2013, 10:04 AM   #26
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Pedang Jenawi Singapura



Origin : Singapore

Date : 1940s (World War 2)














Sources : facebook.com/Ryujinswords



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Old 2nd July 2013, 05:01 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HangPC2
Pedang Jenawi Patani

Origin : Pattani (Sultanate Patani / Ayutthaya Period)








However, they come from another country's long swordmaking tradition which includes double-edged blades and single-edged blades. This particular design sees to have been strongly influenced by Japanese swords, though it could have also been influenced by Chinese swords. Japanese swords did however reach this area. I've seen one sword that dates from the Sultanate Patani that has a Japanese blade and a proper habaki.

Probably Edo, with not much sori. Rather rusted now, and engraved with local designs, with a tsuka made of the local wood and bound with thread, but still a functional sword. Presumably the blade got there via trade.

Having done some digging yes, there were direct and indirect trading links between Japan and the Sultanate Patani. Chinese merchants started trading there in the early 15th century and played a major role in its rise as a regional trade centre. The Chinese were soon joined by the Portuguese (who traded with Japan) in 1516, the Japanese in 1592, the Dutch (who traded with Japan) in 1602, the English in 1612, and many Malay and Siamese merchants. After 1620 the Dutch and English both closed their warehouses, but a prosperous trade was continued by the Chinese, Japanese, and Portuguese for most of that century. Most foreign merchants abandoned trading with Patani after the 1688 invasion by Ayudhya which resulted in fifty years of political disorder and widespread lawlessness.

Which means that the influence of Japanese sword design on Malayan swords has a longer history than supposed. Of course, the influence of various forms of the Chinese dao are equally possible. The zhanmadao, mentioned in an 11th century military text, was similar in appearance to a katana. However, you’re now into the rather complex subject of Chinese influences on Japanese sword design, and the wider subject of the influence of Chinese technology and culture on Asia as a whole.

sometimes the Japanese influenced the Chinese. In the 16th century a Chinese general obtained a Japanese military manual featuring o-dachi and their use as an anti-cavalry weapon. This was of interest to him, since he was engaged in warfare with the Mongols. The general promptly replaced the zhanmadao, which had been used for this purpose, with the Japanese design. Ideas of who influenced what in the wider Asian context therefore get exceedingly complex if the katana and its variations were originally derivatives of the zhanmadao and the zhanmadao was subsequently replaced with Japanese-derived blades. There are therefore multiple possible influences on the development of the Malayan pedang jenawi and similar swords in the region. That some of these are *not* Japanese can be shown by the use of a permanently fixed hilt and a soldered guard. It is therefore overly simplistic to say that these are just faux Japanese swords. There are Japanese influences, sure – however Japan has been influenced by China, and China had a direct influence on places like Vietnam, Malaya, Thailand etc. The Japanese also influenced these area, either by direct or indirect trade, and smiths indigenous to these area interpreted these influences in their own way.
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