Ali Dinar(?) Kaskara

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by werdna

I liked the look of this kaskara except for the goldish/brass dots which I thought looked crude and unappealing to the point that I wondered if they were a later edition to ''flash'' up the blade or to differentiate it from the many similar.
regarding the posts about only needing 2 bidders(I also collect ancient coins) a Naxos tetradrachm recently achieved approximately $740,000NZD at auction(I only kept a note after converting to NZ dollars),the coin is rare but the sale price is insane
regards
Andrew Freeston

Gold or gold metal filled dots have certain significance on Islamic blades as described in Yucel ("Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths", 2001). These appeared in varied groupings and numbers, however seem to have usually been situated toward to blade tip. I have seen certain cases where some kaskara, otherwise quite plain, have had such 'dots' near the blade tip, but were most likely brass filled.
In Islamic symbolism and allegory it seems numbers are key, so it is hard to say what specifically these dots might mean, but they are likely placed there to augment the inscriptions and invocations on the blade.

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

In Islamic symbolism and allegory it seems numbers are key, so it is hard to say what specifically these dots might mean, but they are likely placed there to augment the inscriptions and invocations on the blade.

The five dots can mean the Five Pillars of Islam.
The second interpretation of the five points is the family of Muhammad: Muhammad himself, his daughter Fatimah, his son-in-law Ali, his grandchildren Hasan and Husayn.
In favor of the second version, I think it will be that a separately located point is larger than the others (Probably a langet prevented it from being placed in the center of a square of four points).
Perhaps translating text between dots can help (excluding the "magic square").

[TVV]

Originally Posted by Saracen

The five dots can mean the Five Pillars of Islam.

On one of the photos there appear to be two more dots towards the tip of the blade, so it might be 7 instead of 5 dots altogether. A reference to the seven sleepers? We probably will not know for sure, but it is fun to speculate.

Teodor

[ariel]

There is such a thing as Seven Pillars in Ismaili Islam.
TE Lawrence called his war memoir Seven Pillars of Wisdom.
There are seven dots on the blades of Chinese Jians, symbolising Ursa Major.
Seven days in a week ( Jewish, Christian and Moslem).
Any more possibilities?

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by ariel

Any more possibilities?

Seven Fridays a week (Russian proverb)

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by TVV

On one of the photos there appear to be two more dots towards the tip of the blade, so it might be 7 instead of 5 dots altogether.

Teodor

Thank you, Teodor. I didn't see these two dots before.
Without these dots, I had another beautiful interpretation of the five dots:
the hand of the owner of the sword is led by Muhammad himself, followed by his family and only then by the humble owner of the sword, modestly fulfilling the will of the Prophet.
But now I'm at a loss. Who are the two at the tip of the blade?

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by TVV

A reference to the seven sleepers?

Teodor

In the Islamic tradition, there would be eight names. Kitmir, their dog, was also with the youths.
I also think that in this case the dots would be located in one block.
But look at the photo below. Recently, Marius showed his Ottoman kard.
On its handle is a Tree of Immortality with the same arrangement of five dots. And two separately outside the composition.
I think they should also be considered separately on the sword blade.
Most likely, this is a metaphor of spiritual ascent through the observance of religious precepts, or Sufi practices.
Something similar in meaning to the drawing "the Prophet's ladder" (Kirk Narduban) on the blades.
In the Ottoman tradition, the image of a tree may probably have another meaning (the famous dream of Osman I about a tree growing out of him),
but in this case I think the same "message" is on the kard and the kaskara.

[Jerseyman]

Just adding the picture Jim mentioned in post #4 from Tony North's book, 'Islamic Arms' p30.

[Jack Fletcher]

Absolutely amazing and stunning!

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Jerseyman

Just adding the picture Jim mentioned in post #4 from Tony North's book, 'Islamic Arms' p30.

Thank you!
That was "Introduction to Islamic Arms " (1999).
I recall talking with Tony North while I was researching Ali Dinar kaskaras as I had come across one said to be from his armory, and asked about the one in this sword grouping. He said he believed it was then owned by a collector in SE Asia or Thailand? but had lost track of where.

[Jerseyman]

You're welcome. I have the HMSO 1985 print which only has 'Islamic Arms' on the cover - but you're right, inside the title plate says 'An Introduction to Islamic Arms'.

If anyone wants to read the book you can borrow a digital copy by the hour for free from The Internet Archive by setting up a free account.

https://archive.org/details/introductiontois0000nort

I only got to meet Tony a couple of times at the Arms & Armour Society and the man was an absolute fount of arms information! He was a real loss to the community.