Katzbalgers and Related Landsknecht Swords

Foxbat · 6th November 2012, 12:58 PM

As far as I can tell the finials and the bars are one piece, together with the block.

broadaxe · 6th November 2012, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxbat

As far as I can tell the finials and the bars are one piece, together with the block.

The circular grooves could have been made by the tool used to turn the hot iron bar in the process of making, to create the screw-effect on the guard branches.

cornelistromp · 7th November 2012, 07:18 AM

I apologize if I kick someone against the sore leg, my personal opinion in all frankness.
some style attributes, especially on the guard and ricasso block, combined with the extreme rarity of this type make me suspect that this is probably a later reproduction.(20thst or 19th century)

Only two authentic swords of this type are known to me;

- one in the Berliner Zeughaus, published by G. Hitl, p.58 waffensammlung Nr.334 and Mueller/koelling/Platow, Europaische Hieb und Stich Waffen p.189 Nr. 96.

- Another one sold by Hermann Historica 19 mai 2001 lot 64

best,

Foxbat · 7th November 2012, 02:28 PM

No apology is needed, we are all entitled to our opinions. In addition things like auction records are not 100% reliable, as some of us have discovered. Having this sword in my hands, I rule out 19th or 20th century replica idea. Could it possibly be a very early, perhaps even a period, composite? Yes. My level of expertise does not go that far.

cornelistromp · 7th November 2012, 08:58 PM

I do not expect it to be a composite from the 16th century. I can say with reasonable certainty that the guard is much later.
it may be of course the case that original parts are used, for example, the blade and/or the grip.
However, the patina, colour and pitting of the blade are almost identical to the other sword, this is highly unusual, Do they come from the same source?

It is difficult to give some kind of (final) opinion merely based on the posted pictures, if you have the opportunity and want to have more certainty, I would advice to submit it to a specialist of the well known auction houses;
Thomas del mar, Bonhams or Hermann Historica. A first impression they can give on the basis of photographs.

best,

cornelistromp · 28th January 2013, 03:35 PM

Two soil finds from the Netherlands, the katzbalger is 87cm and the sword is 94cm allover.

Matchlock · 19th November 2013, 05:50 PM

For an undisputed original piece retaining its sheath and bodkins, please see

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17364

Best,
Michael

7th November 2012, 07:18 AM	#3
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	I apologize if I kick someone against the sore leg, my personal opinion in all frankness. some style attributes, especially on the guard and ricasso block, combined with the extreme rarity of this type make me suspect that this is probably a later reproduction.(20thst or 19th century) Only two authentic swords of this type are known to me; - one in the Berliner Zeughaus, published by G. Hitl, p.58 waffensammlung Nr.334 and Mueller/koelling/Platow, Europaische Hieb und Stich Waffen p.189 Nr. 96. - Another one sold by Hermann Historica 19 mai 2001 lot 64 best, Last edited by cornelistromp; 7th November 2012 at 08:06 AM.

7th November 2012, 08:58 PM	#5
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	I do not expect it to be a composite from the 16th century. I can say with reasonable certainty that the guard is much later. it may be of course the case that original parts are used, for example, the blade and/or the grip. However, the patina, colour and pitting of the blade are almost identical to the other sword, this is highly unusual, Do they come from the same source? It is difficult to give some kind of (final) opinion merely based on the posted pictures, if you have the opportunity and want to have more certainty, I would advice to submit it to a specialist of the well known auction houses; Thomas del mar, Bonhams or Hermann Historica. A first impression they can give on the basis of photographs. best, Last edited by cornelistromp; 8th November 2012 at 03:38 AM.

28th January 2013, 03:35 PM	#6
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,057	Two soil finds from the Netherlands, the katzbalger is 87cm and the sword is 94cm allover. Attached Images

6th November 2012, 12:58 PM	#1
Foxbat Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 69	As far as I can tell the finials and the bars are one piece, together with the block.

7th November 2012, 02:28 PM	#4
Foxbat Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 69	No apology is needed, we are all entitled to our opinions. In addition things like auction records are not 100% reliable, as some of us have discovered. Having this sword in my hands, I rule out 19th or 20th century replica idea. Could it possibly be a very early, perhaps even a period, composite? Yes. My level of expertise does not go that far.

19th November 2013, 05:50 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	For an undisputed original piece retaining its sheath and bodkins, please see http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17364 Best, Michael