Matchlock Pistol ?

Matchlock · 25th June 2012, 06:12 PM

And last not least:

- military matchlock and wheellock muskets, ca. 1570-1720 in chronological order from left to right, author's colln.

- a matchlock chronology from ca. 1520-1720, all author's colln.

- the earliest known surviving complete snap-tinderlock mechanism with lateral push-button trigger (!), comprising all mechanical parts on a lock plate, ca. 1510, the measurements in cm; autor's colln.

- the latter, together with two detached matchlock mechanisms of ca. 1620 and 1650, retaining all of their original bluing! (author's colln.)

Enjoy, and do check out my other threads on matchlock-related topics!
You will be surprised, I promise!

thinreadline · 25th June 2012, 10:35 PM

Along these same lines, I was last night watching the historically atrocious film 'Elizabeth - The Golden Age' .... pistols appear in a couple of scenes , including one execution and also the attempted ( and fictional ) assassination of Queen Elizabeth by Anthony Babington ... I could not see them in any detail but assume they were put in to 'sex up ' the story for American viewers.

Matchlock · 25th June 2012, 11:07 PM

I did not see that film, just heard of it.

I prefer sticking to the facts which I hope I have managed to assemble.

m

Matchlock · 25th June 2012, 11:11 PM

An instance of a tinderlock arquebus with 'back-action' serpentine.

From the record of a Nuremberg training shooting taking place at St. Johanns (corresponding to St. Johannis, nowadays forming part of the City of Nuremberg); dated 1532.

m

thinreadline · 26th June 2012, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

I did not see that film, just heard of it.

I prefer sticking to the facts which, I hope, I have managed to assemble.

m

And indeed you do Matchlock , but nevertheless I would love to hear your views on what the pistol is supposed to be and why the film makers have felt the need to represent it.

Matchlock · 26th June 2012, 12:35 AM

That's indeed the point, thinreadline:
finding out what sources the 'experts' or prop masters relied on ...

I am afraid I am unable to tell what that special pistol was supposed to be as I did not see it.

From rather sad experiences of my own, though, I can tell these film guys usually just resort to information readily available, e.g. some standard encyclopledia or of course the internet.
These sources are normally taken as granted, regardless of their authenticity.

The next thing is: the realization must be cheap and readily accessible.

Atfer all, how often have we watched tv series or movies with 19th c. Colt revolvers being fired endlessly without reloading? With flintlocks being fired without the frizzen even shut? Firing guns without the tiniest trace of a recoil?

The story of misleading the masses when it comes down to weapons is way too sad to be carried on.
Their motto seems to be: who cares anyway? A bunch of weapon freaks who will actually know? Suckers ... you sure can mess around with these!

To be honest I do remember watching one British tv film on Sir Francis Drake, as a boy in the 1960's, probably this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Fra...28TV_series%29

- and I do remember a very good representation of a late-16th c. wheellock dag in there!

Best,
Michael

thinreadline · 26th June 2012, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

That's indeed the point, thinreadline:
finding out what sources the 'experts' or prop masters relied on ...

I am afraid I am unable to tell what that special pistol was supposed to be as I did not see it.

From rather sad experiences of my own, though, I can tell these film guys usually just resort to information readily available, e.g. a standard encyclopledia or of course the internet.
These sources are normally taken as granted, regardless of their authenticity.

The next thing is: the realization must be cheap and readily accessible.

Atfer all, how often have we watched tv series or movies with 19th c. Colt revolvers being fired endlessly without reloading? With flintlocks being fired without the frizzen even shut? Firing guns without the tiniest trace of a recoil?

The story of misleading the masses when it comes down to weapons is way too sad to be carried on.
Their motto seems to be: who cares anyway? A bunch of weapon freaks who will actually know? Suckers ... you sure can mess around with these!

To be honest I do remember watching one British tv film on Sir Francis Drake, as a boy in the 1960's, probably this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Fra...28TV_series%29

- and I do remember a very good representation of a late-16th c. wheellock dag in there!

Best,
Michael

Very good points Michael.
I am a bit of a gun 'nut' myself with a very wide period of interest and I am one of those who is constantly irritated by anachronistic and just plain incorrect usage of firearms in film. Vis the use of No4 Lee Enfields in a WW1 film 'Deathwatch' I saw recently etc .
What surprised me about the pistols in 'Elizabeth TGY' is that I can find no one who has commented on them on the internet . There is a surprisingly good site 'Guns in Movies' which analyses in minute detail every gun appearing in just about any film one cares to mention , but 'Elizabeth TGY' ..not a peep ! I suppose this simply reflects the paucity of knowledge of early firearms in the common realm .
Anyhow I must finish by thanking you for your excellent articles on this site especially on early accessories .. I have gained knowledge which I would be hard pushed to even know where to look for it .
Regards
Richmond

Matchlock · 26th June 2012, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinreadline

Anyhow I must finish by thanking you for your excellent articles on this site especially on early accessories .. I have gained knowledge which I would be hard pushed to even know where to look for it.
Regards
Richmond

Thank you so much, Richmond,

As my bandwidth of interest in earliest European firearms and accouterments is much narrower than yours I find it easier to concentrate on what is most important in my eyes - in order to help diminish 'the paucity of knowledge of early firearms in the common realm' as you put it well-wordedly.

I too have gained a lot from writing on the forum, from demanding requests and from what others have contributed.

Finally I think it is not only weapons enthusiasts that get fooled by the films and tv series. Just have a look at a common scene of two people talking in a car, with the driver looking constantly at the person sitting next to him and totally neglecting the road for what seems an eternity - at top speed. How real is this?

Best,
Michael

25th June 2012, 06:12 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	And last not least: - military matchlock and wheellock muskets, ca. 1570-1720 in chronological order from left to right, author's colln. - a matchlock chronology from ca. 1520-1720, all author's colln. - the earliest known surviving complete snap-tinderlock mechanism with lateral push-button trigger (!), comprising all mechanical parts on a lock plate, ca. 1510, the measurements in cm; autor's colln. - the latter, together with two detached matchlock mechanisms of ca. 1620 and 1650, retaining all of their original bluing! (author's colln.) Enjoy, and do check out my other threads on matchlock-related topics! You will be surprised, I promise! Just a few: - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15668 - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10029 - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...oldest+handgun - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...oldest+handgun - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...oldest+handgun - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...1540+harquebus - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...1540+harquebus - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ndsknecht+1540 - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...echt+harquebus - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...echt+harquebus - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...chlock+muskets - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...chlock+muskets - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...chlock+muskets m Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 25th June 2012 at 07:03 PM.

25th June 2012, 11:07 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	I did not see that film, just heard of it. I prefer sticking to the facts which I hope I have managed to assemble. m Last edited by Matchlock; 26th June 2012 at 10:19 PM.

25th June 2012, 11:11 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	An instance of a tinderlock arquebus with 'back-action' serpentine. From the record of a Nuremberg training shooting taking place at St. Johanns (corresponding to St. Johannis, nowadays forming part of the City of Nuremberg); dated 1532. m Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 26th June 2012 at 10:25 PM.

26th June 2012, 12:35 AM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	That's indeed the point, thinreadline: finding out what sources the 'experts' or prop masters relied on ... I am afraid I am unable to tell what that special pistol was supposed to be as I did not see it. From rather sad experiences of my own, though, I can tell these film guys usually just resort to information readily available, e.g. some standard encyclopledia or of course the internet. These sources are normally taken as granted, regardless of their authenticity. The next thing is: the realization must be cheap and readily accessible. Atfer all, how often have we watched tv series or movies with 19th c. Colt revolvers being fired endlessly without reloading? With flintlocks being fired without the frizzen even shut? Firing guns without the tiniest trace of a recoil? The story of misleading the masses when it comes down to weapons is way too sad to be carried on. Their motto seems to be: who cares anyway? A bunch of weapon freaks who will actually know? Suckers ... you sure can mess around with these! To be honest I do remember watching one British tv film on Sir Francis Drake, as a boy in the 1960's, probably this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Fra...28TV_series%29 - and I do remember a very good representation of a late-16th c. wheellock dag in there! Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 27th June 2012 at 12:23 AM.

25th June 2012, 10:35 PM	#2
thinreadline Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,204	Along these same lines, I was last night watching the historically atrocious film 'Elizabeth - The Golden Age' .... pistols appear in a couple of scenes , including one execution and also the attempted ( and fictional ) assassination of Queen Elizabeth by Anthony Babington ... I could not see them in any detail but assume they were put in to 'sex up ' the story for American viewers.