Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi
User Name
Password
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 16th March 2014, 06:02 AM   #1
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default Old Cirebon keris

Sharing this keris I bought off ebay recently. Looks like an old Cirebon keris. The original hilt had its nose and face chewed off by mice. I replaced it with a similar hilt from my collection.

I always wanted to have an example of this old keris form because the sheath form seemed to be the preceding form for later Central Javanese sheath forms, as well as Bugis, Malay sheath forms.
Attached Images
      
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2014, 08:35 PM   #2
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 7,256
Default

Hello Kai Wee,

nice to read again here from you!

I think that I remember this keris. Certainly a very old keris but I am not sure about the Cirebon attribution, could be a Banten keris. But North/West Java origin for sure.

Regards,

Detlef

Last edited by Sajen : 16th March 2014 at 08:46 PM.
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2014, 02:49 PM   #3
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default

Hello Detlef,

Indeed, it looks like some of the kerises from Jensen's book. My understanding is that Banten and Cirebon were founded by the same person, so similarities in style would be within expectation. But I would admit I don't really know, and views would be welcome.
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2014, 02:19 PM   #4
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default

I mentioned in another thread my hypothesis that the tajong evolved from Cirebon kerises. Here's an early coteng keris with a sheath that is reminiscent of old Cirebon style. The hilt is probably younger than the sheath, but of a older form, which is closer to the Cirebon rasaksha/Garuda hilts, with its shorter nose and similar posture.
Attached Images
  
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st March 2014, 02:19 PM   #5
Marcokeris
Member
 
Marcokeris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Italy
Posts: 845
Default

Stunning !!! BluErf
Marcokeris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd March 2014, 08:57 PM   #6
Amuk Murugul
Member
 
Amuk Murugul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: rampés agama, haat héman na djanma, kandel koelit, dipadjarkeun ménak koe na rama
Posts: 397
Red face

Hullo everybody!

BluErf, I commend you on your hypothesis and wish you every success!

Perhaps you may wish to consider:

Focusing some energies on the period c.1600CE
- were there any refugees who became local potentates in the Patani-Songkhla area? If so, where from?
- is there evidence for this type of hilt during this period or, indeed, earlier?
- Sunda and northern Kalimantan were probably the last 'colonies' of Sri Wijaya (15thC), hence sharing a lot with other former 'colonies'.

To be pedantic, it was indeed the SULTANATES of Banten and Cirebon which were founded by Hidayatullah, with himself as the Sultan of Cirebon and his son Hasannudin as the Sultan of Banten. Prior to this, both areas were part of the Sunda confederation (thus, Sundanese), with Cirebon seceding prior to becoming a Sultanate. BTW, Hidayatullah himself was half Sundanese, his mother being the daughter of Silihwangi (I), while his father was Egyptian/Arab (governor of Egypt?).

So, in terms of keris, it is no surprise to find similarities among former areas of Sunda. As a matter of fact, I would extend that to areas where the Sundanese plied their trade for centuries: such as along the northern coast of Java right through to Nusa Tenggara; also the area of Lampung, with which Sunda had a filial relationship.
Whether something is from either Banten or Cirebon, unless very specific, can become a purely academic debate.

Best,

Last edited by Amuk Murugul : 22nd March 2014 at 09:21 PM. Reason: minor correction
Amuk Murugul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2014, 04:26 AM   #7
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default

Thank you sir, Amuk Murugul. you provide some very important clues. My little bit of research suggests the expansion of Islamic Demak at the expanse of the old Hindu states and kingdoms, including Cirebon and Banten, in the 16th century could be a trigger. The fall of Melaka in the same century, leading to trading ships landing at Pattani instead could also be a factor that led the Javanese keris forms to the North.

A pertinent question could be why did the keris form not take root elsewhere closer like Palembang, Minang areas or even the Southern Peninsula? My current thinking is that these areas could already have existing incumbent kris cultures which were very strong, and hence, more inclined to assimilate parts of the influences rather than adopt wholesale.

The events in the 16th century could have led to an exodus of people, including keris-makers out of Northern Java. Or it could simply be the new flow of trade after Melaka's fall. I hear of a Kampung Jawa even in Kelantan. This sets the stage for the subsequent evolution of the coteng and tajong keris from the northern Javanese forms, and I note that the earliest coteng/tajong seemed to date no further back than the 17th century.

I will check out the Sunda leads. I will be glad to hear your views.
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2014, 04:36 AM   #8
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default

And to make things interesting, this Tegal keris appeared a few days ago and I was lucky enough to acquire it. Comparing it to the old coteng, the similarities in the sheath form is striking. And it does not take too much of a stretch in imagination to see how the Tegal hilt can morph into the coteng, given both share essentially the same features.
Attached Images
 
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2014, 10:58 PM   #9
Amuk Murugul
Member
 
Amuk Murugul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: rampés agama, haat héman na djanma, kandel koelit, dipadjarkeun ménak koe na rama
Posts: 397
Default

Hullo everybody!

BluErf, I don't want to be rude, but I have no wish to engage in discussion/debate.
You probably already know more than me.
However, I will leave you with these thoughts:

- You appear to have confirmed that the form 'began' c.1600CE.
Thus one needs to investigate whether a refugee from Java island arrived there around this time who would've had such a capability.

- Around this period, Pattani was losing out to a rival on the east coast.

- One should investigate this hilt form in as many of its guises as one can (e.g. Pekaka, Tajong, Coteng, Cenok, Singgora etc).

- As for 'kampung Jawa': there can be many reasons. I have found villages founded by previous Majapait/Singhasari garrisons; also villages whose people were descendants of members of Mataram Hanyokrokusumo's defeated army who preferred to desert rather than return home and face death.

BTW ... congrats for acquiring the Tegal piece from our Dutch friend!
Though very similar, no 'true' Sundanese would mistake it for a Sundanese keris.

Best,
Amuk Murugul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2014, 11:05 PM   #10
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 7,256
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluErf
And to make things interesting, this Tegal keris appeared a few days ago and I was lucky enough to acquire it. Comparing it to the old coteng, the similarities in the sheath form is striking. And it does not take too much of a stretch in imagination to see how the Tegal hilt can morph into the coteng, given both share essentially the same features.


Congratulations for acquiring this beautiful keris. The discussion about the similarities between this and coteng sheath form we have had before in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11947

Regards,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2014, 02:04 PM   #11
BluErf
Member
 
BluErf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
Default

Thanks Detlef for the limks. I must say at the end of those threads, the conclusion is not clear as to where the keris came from. It is just a general agreement that it is North Coast Java.

In fact,one of the posts with images suggest the Tegal sheath form is from Cirebon, and the Teratai sheath form is from Tegal, with a Rajamala hilt.

Amuk Murugul, thank you for your comments. Could you kindly show an example of a Sundanese keris please?

With regard to the N Malay hilt forms, my learning is that tajong and coteng are the long-nosed hilts I was trying to link the north coast Jawa hilt and sheath to. Pekaka is a special form of large jawa demam hilt. Cenok and Singgora are regions in Southern Thailand where coteng kerises are found, and Cenok is also used to describe the blade form from the region.

Thank you for sharing your insights.
BluErf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 02:13 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.