Bugis keris

[Marcokeris]

as for my case, initially (many years ago) I found this forum really very stimulating, but then slowly and slowly it became more and more boring. Furthermore, there is here an iron discipline and being me of Italian nationality, that is undisciplined and careless by nature, I do not like that if I make a mistake I am immediately blocked.

[milandro]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

as for my case, initially (many years ago) I found this forum really very stimulating, but then slowly and slowly it became more and more boring. Furthermore, there is here an iron discipline and being me of Italian nationality, that is undisciplined and careless by nature, I do not like that if I make a mistake I am immediately blocked.

....And this is precisely what I am talking about Marco.

I am not sure that it is a matter of nationality ( I am Italian born Marco, but I have dual nationality) but I think that “you get more flies with honey than with vinegar.

[Rick]

Milandro, you've hijacked a thread to make your complaints without making any suggestions on improvements to be made.
Please be more thoughtful in the future.
If you guys have any constructive suggestions, please contact the moderators and be specific.
We'd love to hear from you.

[milandro]

Originally Posted by Rick

Milandro, you've hijacked a thread to make your complaints without making any suggestions on improvements to be made.
Please be more thoughtful in the future.
If you guys have any constructive suggestions, please contact the moderators and be specific.
We'd love to hear from you.

Rick, I didn’t hijack the thread, you are incorrect, I responded to at least 3 before mine bringing this up. I am making no complaint, I am answering to one , I am asking for a reflection that others made before of me.



for your reference see the posts, If nothing else I simply responded to 3 posts before of mine, I didn’t start it .

Originally Posted by jagabuwana

While it would be nice if this forum were more lively, I can understand why it isn't (anymore), for reasons mentioned by Alan and David.

The reality is that there really aren't that many Anglophone or English-speaking keris interested people.
And of that number I would say there are even less who like to, or have the knowledge to discuss and study the keris in the way that is often seen in this forum.
I think it's easy for us to underrate just how niche this interest is. It may not be as niche in the keris' home land, but we are an English-speaking forum.

There are also only so many keris in our possession that we can share or ask about. My collection is small, I don't add to it just for the sake of accumulating another keris, and sadly at the moment I find myself quite bereft of questions or contributions. There's plenty of contemplation, but this is not the forum for contemplation.

Originally Posted by Green

i come to this forum just about every day religiously in the hope that there are new threads /posts or inputs on old posts.

Too bad that it has become rather empty lately. I do find this forum the only one that people do put effort to discuss honestly and seriously and my hat off to people like mr Maisey, David, Jean etc that i've benefited a lot in my keris knowledge from their comments on various keris matter.

Originally Posted by Paul B.

What happened to the kerisforum? It used to be a environment of kerislovers with a vivid atmosphere. Commited forumites with different background who joined a topic. So it was a joy and pleasures to read, learn and enjoy it. Now you often have to ask twice to trigger anybody to give an opinion. At present it are always the same guys who put energy in it.To bad.

[Rick]

Apologies for my error Milandro.
However, rest of my post still stands.

[milandro]

Originally Posted by Rick

Apologies for my error Milandro.
However, rest of my post still stands.

Apology accepted.

If necessary I move to move the posts on this matter on a new thread.

Obviously, it is not something caught from thin air or there wouldn’t have been people before of me and after commenting on the forum being frequented by fewer and fewer people.

Asking oneself WHY, is important, I like this forum but the fact that participation is wilting is a fact, not an opinion.

[David]

Originally Posted by milandro

Apology accepted.

If necessary I move to move the posts on this matter on a new thread.

Obviously, it is not something caught from thin air or there wouldn’t have been people before of me and after commenting on the forum being frequented by fewer and fewer people.

Asking oneself WHY, is important, I like this forum but the fact that participation is wilting is a fact, not an opinion.

To make it a bit clearer Milandro, the public forum is not really the place for such a discussion. The moderation staff is ALWAYS open to suggestions, but you should contact us directly if you have any.
Unfortunately your post seems to contain vague and veiled criticisms.
"Again, one can blame it on external factors and they certainly play a role, but a certain amount of introspective criticism may also serve the purpose to change in attitude which may appeal to more people."
If you have specific criticisms for the moderators by all means send us a PM and we can discuss them. If you have suggestions about what might possibly improve forum participation, by all means let us know. But trying to create an open "bitch session" in the public forum is not OK.
As i see things currently there are a number of reasons we see less traffic these days on this forum and why we often see some new members post only a few times and then disappear.

1. Many of the new members who stay briefly are not really keris collectors. They have inherited a keris or were gifted with one from a friend or maybe just stumbled across one in a flea market and want to know more about what they have. That does not mean they have a committed interest in keris. I can also think of a couple of recent examples of people who have inherited a collection and are simply trying to figure out how to sell it. So once they hear that the keris they have is not all that or not particularly special they lose interest and go away. Or the ones trying to sell keris figure out that we don't do appraisals and they go away as well.
2. Many people are spending more time on one a many Facebook pages dedicated to keris or tosan aji. You will certainly find many more Indonesian collectors there. This is partly due to the fact that most of these pages do not insist on discussions taking place in English as we do here so they are more comfortable conversing there. Also it is easier for keris sellers to try to use these pages for sales presentations, something we are extra vigilant about on this forum.
I personally also moderate on two of these FB keris pages. These pages have thousands of members so you are indeed likely to see a lot of keris that you have never seen posted before. So they are exciting places to see new keris and a lot of variety, both good and bad. I do find that the discussions rarely get very in depth on these pages though. But they are still attractive place for people who just what to see nice keris from various collections or do a show and tell. The two pages i participate on were started and are maintained by forum members who may have once spent more time here. These pages are their babies and require their focus and upkeep, so they now seem to not bother much with spending time on this forum any more. This is understandable and frankly a loss for both us and them.
3. People don't like rules. But we have put specific rules in place on our forum for well thought out reasons. These FB pages seem to have a lot less in the way of rules and if the wild west is your thing you may find it better environment. But for my money it is really difficult to learn anything truly important about keris in that environment. Your mileage may vary. But if it is a "Lighter atmosphere" that you are seeking rather than a place for serious and focussed discussion using solid evidence based upon well-sourced study then these Facebook venues may be to your liking.
4. You may see no shortage of collectors in the Netherlands, but as Jean has mentioned, the keris collector world is aging out and sources for valid information are disappearing every day. We are certainly a relatively small group of collectors in the world at large and the number of people who truly know their stuff when it comes to keris are not necessarily passing a torch to the younger generation. They are, unfortunately, simply passing on. Many of the new ideas that arise about keris seemingly come out of nowhere. By that refer not only to new names for pamors and dhapurs, but new theories of origins, philosophies and spirituality. It is not for me to call any of the newer concepts about keris "right" or "wrong", but i have a tendency to lean towards sources that can be verified to some degree through trusted sources. We are not necessarily a group here that simply accepts unverified "knowledge" regarding keris at face value as i see time and time again on these Facebook sites. We are what we are. It is always our goal that debate on this forum remains friendly and civil, but there is the expectation that people will support their assessments and theories in some academic like manner. If that creates a heavier atmosphere on this forum then so be it.

At this point i would really like us to leave this aspect of discuss behind and turn our attention back to Paul's keris. Since he has complained about the lack of response it does seem that he has gotten a little bit more information. Though i don't know if there is really anything else to add in assessing his keris.
Again i would like to point out that this is not an appropriate venue for criticisms of this forum. Such public displays only create argument and discontent. But we are very open and indeed interested in anyone's suggestions on how to make this forum a better place and/or increase traffic and discussion. So anyone who has any serious suggestions should contact myself and/or Rick directly through Private Messenger. We will listen to any serious suggestions you might have. This does not, of course, mean that every suggestion will be accepted and implemented, but they will all be seriously considered.