Sumatra Keris tourist or not?

chregu · 8th April 2010, 06:22 PM

hi david
thanke for the detailed answer. Indonesian history is not my area of expertise.
gruss Chregu

A. G. Maisey · 8th April 2010, 10:52 PM

Yes, its a Madura keris, and as David mentions, this style of dress is sometimes associated with keris that were produced for collectors in the period from around 1880 through to WWII.

However, simply because there seems to have been production directed at the collector market does not make this style of dress any less desirable, in fact, old examples of this dress style are now relatively scarce and for the better ones, quite expensive, especially those which are carved as lions.

In my opinion, it is wrong to think of this type of dress as "tourist", because it is a genuine and old established type of dress, however Europeans favoured it because it is elaborate, and blades redressed for sale in the later colonial era were probably dressed this way to facilitate sale.

Examples of this dress can be seen in the museum of the Kraton Sumenep, in Madura. There are a number of different styles, all having different names. I understand the generic name is "gabilan", but there is another larger style that is named "brahmana rsi". I am unclear on the distinction between the two, except that the brahmana rsi is larger.

I do not favour the term "tourist keris", most especially for any type of keris that does have a legitimate old form. If I consider the types of keris that have been made specifically for the tourist market there is really only one type from Indonesia that I can fit squarely into that box, I do not have an example I can show a photo of, but it is a Balinese production, the scabbard is almost always of Makassar ebony, but later ones were stained black, the carving of scabbard and hilt is often of a very high standard, and very often the blade is a piece of flat iron with an etched pamor design. This type of keris was produced exclusively for tourist consumption.

Rick · 9th April 2010, 02:31 AM

This old thread :
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...gabilan+madura

And a Lion form .

No mendak needed; it's carved right in .

David · 9th April 2010, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

However, simply because there seems to have been production directed at the collector market does not make this style of dress any less desirable, in fact, old examples of this dress style are now relatively scarce and for the better ones, quite expensive, especially those which are carved as lions.

Yes, i have been interested in finding a nicely carved old version of this lion dress for some time.
I agree with you completely Alan. This notion of the "tourist" keris is really a misnomer. Those nasty cut out blades with the paint on pamor from Bali would qualify, yes, and those souvenir Malay letter opener keris with the silver plated blades certainly do, but beyond that...

BluErf · 10th April 2010, 02:22 PM

I thought the blade is a very decent blade! Has a settled old look to it, and definitely made by a pandai who knew what he was doing.

Henk · 10th April 2010, 03:20 PM

These keris where as mentioned Madura style keris and probably made in madura for the Dutch soldiers to bring back home. Especially Madura was very loyal to the Dutch. This loyalty is represented in some styles of the maduran ukiran full of Dutch symbolism

I already mentioned in another thread that these kind of keris are worth to find a place in a keris collection. A real keris blade in a mostly good carved but also a dress of lower quality of used wood representing a historical period. Until now i've seen two styles of this soldiers keris if i may call it so. Both styles are shown in this thread.

Here in Holland you couldn't enter an auction house or fleemarket without stumbling over some of these keris. Today they start to become more rare to find.

David · 10th April 2010, 04:45 PM

Well, as Alan has pointed out this dress form was a legitimate one that was favored my Europeans and so it became associated with them due to their desire to have these elaborate carvings for keris they returned home with. But we would probably be a bit off base to assume that they were always made specifically for Dutch soldiers. And for the most part i think the blades in them were not made for them either. Just old blades they managed to collect and have re-dressed in this form. Because of this i think we see a great deal of variation in the quality of blades we find in this dress, but usually they are not top-notch blades. We also see a wide range in the quality of the dress itself.
Is it not possible that we might find one of these in Madura where it was owned by a Maduran and never meant to be a soldier's souvenir?

Henk · 10th April 2010, 10:42 PM

David,

Very good question.

The blades where older blades indeed and mostly not top-notch blades. In my opinion and that's why you see them so much here in Holland is that these dresses were purely made for bringback gifts for mainly the Dutch soldiers and other Dutch employees in those days.

In my opinion the Maduran owned keris in their proper maduran dress and not in dress of lower quality wood, that was used for these bringback kerisses.

8th April 2010, 10:52 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yes, its a Madura keris, and as David mentions, this style of dress is sometimes associated with keris that were produced for collectors in the period from around 1880 through to WWII. However, simply because there seems to have been production directed at the collector market does not make this style of dress any less desirable, in fact, old examples of this dress style are now relatively scarce and for the better ones, quite expensive, especially those which are carved as lions. In my opinion, it is wrong to think of this type of dress as "tourist", because it is a genuine and old established type of dress, however Europeans favoured it because it is elaborate, and blades redressed for sale in the later colonial era were probably dressed this way to facilitate sale. Examples of this dress can be seen in the museum of the Kraton Sumenep, in Madura. There are a number of different styles, all having different names. I understand the generic name is "gabilan", but there is another larger style that is named "brahmana rsi". I am unclear on the distinction between the two, except that the brahmana rsi is larger. I do not favour the term "tourist keris", most especially for any type of keris that does have a legitimate old form. If I consider the types of keris that have been made specifically for the tourist market there is really only one type from Indonesia that I can fit squarely into that box, I do not have an example I can show a photo of, but it is a Balinese production, the scabbard is almost always of Makassar ebony, but later ones were stained black, the carving of scabbard and hilt is often of a very high standard, and very often the blade is a piece of flat iron with an etched pamor design. This type of keris was produced exclusively for tourist consumption. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 8th April 2010 at 11:14 PM.

9th April 2010, 02:31 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Photo Rich This old thread : http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...gabilan+madura And a Lion form . No mendak needed; it's carved right in . Attached Images

8th April 2010, 06:22 PM	#1
chregu Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: switzerland Posts: 298	hi david thanke for the detailed answer. Indonesian history is not my area of expertise. gruss Chregu

10th April 2010, 02:22 PM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I thought the blade is a very decent blade! Has a settled old look to it, and definitely made by a pandai who knew what he was doing.

10th April 2010, 03:20 PM	#6
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	These keris where as mentioned Madura style keris and probably made in madura for the Dutch soldiers to bring back home. Especially Madura was very loyal to the Dutch. This loyalty is represented in some styles of the maduran ukiran full of Dutch symbolism I already mentioned in another thread that these kind of keris are worth to find a place in a keris collection. A real keris blade in a mostly good carved but also a dress of lower quality of used wood representing a historical period. Until now i've seen two styles of this soldiers keris if i may call it so. Both styles are shown in this thread. Here in Holland you couldn't enter an auction house or fleemarket without stumbling over some of these keris. Today they start to become more rare to find.

10th April 2010, 04:45 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Well, as Alan has pointed out this dress form was a legitimate one that was favored my Europeans and so it became associated with them due to their desire to have these elaborate carvings for keris they returned home with. But we would probably be a bit off base to assume that they were always made specifically for Dutch soldiers. And for the most part i think the blades in them were not made for them either. Just old blades they managed to collect and have re-dressed in this form. Because of this i think we see a great deal of variation in the quality of blades we find in this dress, but usually they are not top-notch blades. We also see a wide range in the quality of the dress itself. Is it not possible that we might find one of these in Madura where it was owned by a Maduran and never meant to be a soldier's souvenir?

10th April 2010, 10:42 PM	#8
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	David, Very good question. The blades where older blades indeed and mostly not top-notch blades. In my opinion and that's why you see them so much here in Holland is that these dresses were purely made for bringback gifts for mainly the Dutch soldiers and other Dutch employees in those days. In my opinion the Maduran owned keris in their proper maduran dress and not in dress of lower quality wood, that was used for these bringback kerisses.