A MAMELUKE SABRE FOR COMENTS

[Ian Knight]

Originally Posted by celtan

I believe its a Klingenthal blade.

Solingen I think.

Ian.

[celtan]

Hi Ian,

I have owned, and probably still have a couple, Klingenthal blades. Some were from the Coulaux brothers. They shared similar engravings in their spines. For private orders, the usual Klingenthal markers do not appear. As example, the Coulaux Freres mark would appear on the ricasso, yet heavy use often erases it.

Klingenthal was created just to emulate Solingen, so their styles are generally similar.

OTOH: There's the matter of a CW southern blade I own, which has a similar spine design, but which I haven't yet been able to pinpoint its provenance...

Best

M

Originally Posted by Ian Knight

Solingen I think.

Ian.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by celtan

Hi Ian,


Klingenthal was created just to emulate Solingen, so their styles are generally similar.

Best

M

Klingenthal, or the La Manufacture d'Armes d'Alsace when it was founded in 1729, was always a state manufactory and not a collection of private entreprises like Solingen. It is probably more accurate to say it was supposed to emulate Potsdam rather than Solingen as it was borne from the French desire to have its own state regulated sword making industry. Of course Solingen blade makers were recruited when it was first founded so no doubt the styles would have been similar at that time but by the time of the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars (1792-1815) and in particular when the Coulaux family became entrepreneurs in 1801, the respective styles were chalk and cheese. I agree with Ian - that little floral swirl on the back of the blade is absolutely Solingen but also found on many 1st Empire French officer swords because so many were made in Solingen when it was under French control from 1807 to 1813. Klingenthal did have some private output at this time but it was minimal, the main effort was concentrated on equipping the vast French armies and making good campaign losses sustained in Spain and Russia.

Richard

[celtan]

Hi Richard,

I'm quite familiar with Klingenthal, merci beaucoup a Jean Binck.
But thanks for the refresher, anyway. : )
For some reason, I did not keep a good picture depot of my old blades, yet I found this one, clearly w the Coulaux inscription. The other one I had, I couldn't get a clear picture of the ricasso, the langet obscuring the name.

Best regards

M





the other, also Klingenthal (Vallee des lames : )

Originally Posted by Richard

Klingenthal, or the La Manufacture d'Armes d'Alsace when it was founded in 1729, was always a state manufactory and not a collection of private entreprises like Solingen. It is probably more accurate to say it was supposed to emulate Potsdam rather than Solingen as it was borne from the French desire to have its own state regulated sword making industry. Of course Solingen blade makers were recruited when it was first founded so no doubt the styles would have been similar at that time but by the time of the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars (1792-1815) and in particular when the Coulaux family became entrepreneurs in 1801, the respective styles were chalk and cheese. I agree with Ian - that little floral swirl on the back of the blade is absolutely Solingen but also found on many 1st Empire French officer swords because so many were made in Solingen when it was under French control from 1807 to 1813. Klingenthal did have some private output at this time but it was minimal, the main effort was concentrated on equipping the vast French armies and making good campaign losses sustained in Spain and Russia.

Originally Posted by Richard

Richard

[fernando]

Olá Manuel,
The little floral on the spine of your blade does indeed looks the same as in mine.
However i tend to accept the context approached by Richard, when he says:

"Of course Solingen blade makers were recruited when it was first founded so no doubt the styles would have been similar at that time but by the time of the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars (1792-1815) and in particular when the Coulaux family became entrepreneurs in 1801, the respective styles were chalk and cheese. I agree with Ian - that little floral swirl on the back of the blade is absolutely Solingen but also found on many 1st Empire French officer swords because so many were made in Solingen when it was under French control from 1807 to 1813"

By the way, how did i not remember to consult Jean Binck?
As he told you something further to the blade decoration origin?
Like the origin of the sword as a whole?

Salud, viño y mujeres.

Fernando

[Richard]

All,

I have it on very good authority that quite often Solingen makers signed (i.e. forged) "Coulaux freres" on their blades to make them more acceptable to the French market.

Richard

[celtan]

Howdy guys,

Nandinho, I agree that Klingenthal had at its origins a core of Solingen armourers. And nopey, Jean did assist me with other blades, quite effectively, if I may add.

I don't know that much about french blades to effectively distinguish between their styles from Solingen.

Richard, the second sword had Klingenthal inscribed on the ricasso, and it also sports a spine flowery decoration.

May I surmise from you comment, that only Solingen blades carried spine motifs? What about the second Klingenthal blade? Did Solingen also use the Klingenthal cartouche?

I'm aware they routinely used spanish armouries marks to better market their wares.

I, for one, would like to hear more on the subject of blade spine symbols.

Best

M