Afghan Jezail in York, UK

RDGAC · 1st April 2010, 04:11 PM

Well, I finally did it; I've dismantled the gun. No real surprises, I should imagine; the "ramrod" turns out to be a piece of painted dowel, inserted to keep the fore stock together, and the lock came away easily enough and seems, happily, to be in working order; at least, it certainly does a damned good impression of it! Having determined it was at the half-cock, I decided to cock it fully and fire, thereby releasing the tension on the mainspring. With the aid of a little WD40, it worked like a charm. My compliments to the maker!

The biggest surprise, however, is that the barrel steel does show a pattern! It might be damascus, I suppose, but then again it could just as well be faked damascus patterning. I'm trying to get a good photograph but this damned camera is still defeating my efforts; however, some select pictures can be seen below.

Barrel:
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8917/img0323tx.jpg
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5083/img0317yt.jpg
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8163/img0325.jpg
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/6926/img0324ky.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4329/img0323l.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8257/img0326i.jpg

Lock:
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5840/img0322db.jpg

ward · 1st April 2010, 08:55 PM

ok I see pattern. A quick and dirty way to see if it might come out take the strongest vinegar you have put in microwave and apply to the underside of the barrel. when you are finished use hot water or baking soda solution. It will not do anything bad to the outside appearence as long as you are reasonable carefull. If you see the watering that I expect I can talk you thru a better watering technique

RDGAC · 8th April 2010, 02:47 PM

Right, I've done the vinegar-and-water acid etch trick. I can certainly see a difference; the pattern is very distinct, with many swirls and whorls, and even appears to have a tiny bit of a texture to it - though I can't feel anything through latex gloves. I've taken five pics and I hope they've come out all right, but if not, I'll work on getting some more done.

Incidentally, any tips and tricks on rust removal? I've not yet really embarked on de-rusting the barrel, since it seemed pointless when I was about to apply acid and water to it anyway, but hopefully I can now move onto that stage. So far I've tried a small area, using some reasonably fine glass paper, which seemed to produce results. With the lock, I've restricted myself to 3-in-1 oil and a soft cloth, removing as much excess oil as possible and leaving only a small amount as a film to inhibit further corrosion.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3706/img0331qe.jpg
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/7321/img0330og.jpg
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8053/img0329g.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2114/img0328v.jpg
http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/6654/img0327.jpg

RDGAC · 13th April 2010, 10:43 AM

A small update. I spent a fair portion of Saturday working on the underside of the barrel, getting off as much corrosion as I could; gun cleaning oil, a good cloth and a great deal of patience have produced some result, with one patch of rust now down to the black, inactive stuff beneath. This area still has a film of oil upon it, so for now it's protected.

However, I really do need some advice on de-rusting wootz/Damascus; if it is indeed either metal, I don't want to destroy the pattern by over-enthusiastic attempts at rust removal. Furthermore, I'd ideally like to remove even the inactive rust. It strikes me as a shame to leave the beautiful metal beneath obscured by great black blotches. There is also a time factor at work here, in that the piece should ideally be ready for display by early May, and I'm away all of next week on a Curatorial course in London, so advice and assistance will be most gratefully received.

ward · 14th April 2010, 03:13 AM

You may want to stop at this point removing heavy black pitting can be made better by using brass dental style picks along with oil.It is time consuming. To correctly acid etch a full barrell you need to submerge the whole barrel. You can get various other results using a quick ferricc chloride etch. If you are feeling brave you can do it with a full hydracloric bath but I would suggest you may want a chemist or a similar type of person with you to do it. It is a little dicey

RDGAC · 29th April 2010, 12:32 PM

Been removing the active rust, and have found that it's been working long enough to leave big, very ugly patches of black inactive rust all over the barrel's upper surfaces. I'd love to remove these but gather that inactive rust is bonded with the steel pretty firmly; noting Ward's recommendation of brass dental picks, would a brass brush do the same sort of job? Also, discovered that the green "copper" corrosion is indeed attributable to brass - consultation with a nearby expert on Oriental (i.e. non-Occidental) arms suggests it's part of the brazing that held its pan in place back when it was a matchlock (!); in the same area, the nipple carrier is seemingly screwed into the touch-hole, and the breech plug looks to have been (very crudely) welded in place. Eesh. Makes one leery of trying to shoot such a thing.

lionzden · 30th April 2010, 02:31 PM

err on the side of caution when removing rust, last thing you want to do is leave it submerged too long

1st April 2010, 04:11 PM	#1
RDGAC Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: York, UK Posts: 167	Well, I finally did it; I've dismantled the gun. No real surprises, I should imagine; the "ramrod" turns out to be a piece of painted dowel, inserted to keep the fore stock together, and the lock came away easily enough and seems, happily, to be in working order; at least, it certainly does a damned good impression of it! Having determined it was at the half-cock, I decided to cock it fully and fire, thereby releasing the tension on the mainspring. With the aid of a little WD40, it worked like a charm. My compliments to the maker! The biggest surprise, however, is that the barrel steel does show a pattern! It might be damascus, I suppose, but then again it could just as well be faked damascus patterning. I'm trying to get a good photograph but this damned camera is still defeating my efforts; however, some select pictures can be seen below. Barrel: http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8917/img0323tx.jpg http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5083/img0317yt.jpg http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8163/img0325.jpg http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/6926/img0324ky.jpg http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4329/img0323l.jpg http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8257/img0326i.jpg Lock: http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5840/img0322db.jpg Last edited by RDGAC; 1st April 2010 at 04:32 PM.

8th April 2010, 02:47 PM	#3
RDGAC Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: York, UK Posts: 167	Right, I've done the vinegar-and-water acid etch trick. I can certainly see a difference; the pattern is very distinct, with many swirls and whorls, and even appears to have a tiny bit of a texture to it - though I can't feel anything through latex gloves. I've taken five pics and I hope they've come out all right, but if not, I'll work on getting some more done. Incidentally, any tips and tricks on rust removal? I've not yet really embarked on de-rusting the barrel, since it seemed pointless when I was about to apply acid and water to it anyway, but hopefully I can now move onto that stage. So far I've tried a small area, using some reasonably fine glass paper, which seemed to produce results. With the lock, I've restricted myself to 3-in-1 oil and a soft cloth, removing as much excess oil as possible and leaving only a small amount as a film to inhibit further corrosion. http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3706/img0331qe.jpg http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/7321/img0330og.jpg http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8053/img0329g.jpg http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2114/img0328v.jpg http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/6654/img0327.jpg Last edited by RDGAC; 8th April 2010 at 05:15 PM.

1st April 2010, 08:55 PM	#2
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	ok I see pattern. A quick and dirty way to see if it might come out take the strongest vinegar you have put in microwave and apply to the underside of the barrel. when you are finished use hot water or baking soda solution. It will not do anything bad to the outside appearence as long as you are reasonable carefull. If you see the watering that I expect I can talk you thru a better watering technique

13th April 2010, 10:43 AM	#4
RDGAC Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: York, UK Posts: 167	A small update. I spent a fair portion of Saturday working on the underside of the barrel, getting off as much corrosion as I could; gun cleaning oil, a good cloth and a great deal of patience have produced some result, with one patch of rust now down to the black, inactive stuff beneath. This area still has a film of oil upon it, so for now it's protected. However, I really do need some advice on de-rusting wootz/Damascus; if it is indeed either metal, I don't want to destroy the pattern by over-enthusiastic attempts at rust removal. Furthermore, I'd ideally like to remove even the inactive rust. It strikes me as a shame to leave the beautiful metal beneath obscured by great black blotches. There is also a time factor at work here, in that the piece should ideally be ready for display by early May, and I'm away all of next week on a Curatorial course in London, so advice and assistance will be most gratefully received.

14th April 2010, 03:13 AM	#5
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	You may want to stop at this point removing heavy black pitting can be made better by using brass dental style picks along with oil.It is time consuming. To correctly acid etch a full barrell you need to submerge the whole barrel. You can get various other results using a quick ferricc chloride etch. If you are feeling brave you can do it with a full hydracloric bath but I would suggest you may want a chemist or a similar type of person with you to do it. It is a little dicey

29th April 2010, 12:32 PM	#6
RDGAC Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: York, UK Posts: 167	Been removing the active rust, and have found that it's been working long enough to leave big, very ugly patches of black inactive rust all over the barrel's upper surfaces. I'd love to remove these but gather that inactive rust is bonded with the steel pretty firmly; noting Ward's recommendation of brass dental picks, would a brass brush do the same sort of job? Also, discovered that the green "copper" corrosion is indeed attributable to brass - consultation with a nearby expert on Oriental (i.e. non-Occidental) arms suggests it's part of the brazing that held its pan in place back when it was a matchlock (!); in the same area, the nipple carrier is seemingly screwed into the touch-hole, and the breech plug looks to have been (very crudely) welded in place. Eesh. Makes one leery of trying to shoot such a thing.

30th April 2010, 02:31 PM	#7
lionzden Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 51	err on the side of caution when removing rust, last thing you want to do is leave it submerged too long