Ancestors of yataghans

TVV · 16th December 2004, 04:42 PM

Great job digging this one out. The similarity with Erlikhan's long eared pommel sword is obvious. In order to avoid further confusion, could you please provide the source of this picture, and more specifically the reasons for the dating.

erlikhan · 16th December 2004, 09:35 PM

Jeff and TVV, thank you very much for the pictures. Amazing. Bactria is the other side of the Caspian sea, western middle Asia, which is far from Caucassia, and Luristan is today's western-southwestern Iran. I don't know the other place "Amlash". Almost completely same type weapons in a very large area, considered in that age's scales. Between 1500 - 1000 b.c., was there a single tribe ruling over the area or many tribes copied and used similar weapons perhaps because of limited development level of creativity or technical difficulties?
In English,does "mounted" mean using "stirrup"? Or everything including saddles? I meant to define saddle especially by word" mounted". If you check John Keegan- "A history of warfare" book , there are wall pictures from Asyrians, first showing horsemen sitting back and without saddle in 850s , and 2nd picture dating to 650s, sitting front and both horse and camels are mounted with saddles. There is no stirrup.

Jeff D · 19th December 2004, 07:18 PM

Sorry for the slow response, I have been busy. Here are some of the sights I found the swords on.
Erlikhan, mounted only means on top of and thus has no inference on whether stirrups are used or not.

http://www.artsales.com/ARTistory/An...nd_Swords.html

http://www.edgarlowen.com/a50ane.html

http://www.theinterestingshop.com/pa...ntweapons1.htm

Jeff

tom hyle · 20th December 2004, 01:23 AM

Fascinating. The mahaira/copis I think to be a fairly Northern sword in its origins, and not Greek or Mediterranean, as commonly thought (nor am I certain of its close relation to the Egypto/Palestinian kopsh, which seems to be derived of the "broad axe"). The people of the Caucases region were known for metalworking and arms making, and I've read that they exported both finished arms and metal to Greece in the bronze age.........what I find interesting about these possible proto-eared-hilts is that the "ears" seem to actually be a tube, perhaps for a lanyard.

16th December 2004, 04:42 PM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Great job digging this one out. The similarity with Erlikhan's long eared pommel sword is obvious. In order to avoid further confusion, could you please provide the source of this picture, and more specifically the reasons for the dating.

16th December 2004, 09:35 PM	#2
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Jeff and TVV, thank you very much for the pictures. Amazing. Bactria is the other side of the Caspian sea, western middle Asia, which is far from Caucassia, and Luristan is today's western-southwestern Iran. I don't know the other place "Amlash". Almost completely same type weapons in a very large area, considered in that age's scales. Between 1500 - 1000 b.c., was there a single tribe ruling over the area or many tribes copied and used similar weapons perhaps because of limited development level of creativity or technical difficulties? In English,does "mounted" mean using "stirrup"? Or everything including saddles? I meant to define saddle especially by word" mounted". If you check John Keegan- "A history of warfare" book , there are wall pictures from Asyrians, first showing horsemen sitting back and without saddle in 850s , and 2nd picture dating to 650s, sitting front and both horse and camels are mounted with saddles. There is no stirrup.

19th December 2004, 07:18 PM	#3
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	Sorry for the slow response, I have been busy. Here are some of the sights I found the swords on. Erlikhan, mounted only means on top of and thus has no inference on whether stirrups are used or not. http://www.artsales.com/ARTistory/An...nd_Swords.html http://www.edgarlowen.com/a50ane.html http://www.theinterestingshop.com/pa...ntweapons1.htm Jeff

20th December 2004, 01:23 AM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Fascinating. The mahaira/copis I think to be a fairly Northern sword in its origins, and not Greek or Mediterranean, as commonly thought (nor am I certain of its close relation to the Egypto/Palestinian kopsh, which seems to be derived of the "broad axe"). The people of the Caucases region were known for metalworking and arms making, and I've read that they exported both finished arms and metal to Greece in the bronze age.........what I find interesting about these possible proto-eared-hilts is that the "ears" seem to actually be a tube, perhaps for a lanyard.