Old Dutch hanger

cornelistromp · 27th March 2010, 07:59 PM

Hi Jim,

my pleasure

I think the dots only represent "the cross", usually on voc swords the date is placed between 2 of those dot crosses.

best regards

M ELEY · 27th March 2010, 10:14 PM

A profound 'thank you', Cornelis and Jim for your valuable input on this sword. Its origin has been troubling me for over a decade and now I can finally see a clear picture of its history. Of course, I couldn't be more happier, as a colony piece such as this very likely could have seen sea service. Again, I can't thank you enough for solving this mystery!
Cheers!
Mark

Anandalal N. · 30th March 2010, 02:04 AM

Dear Mark,

Your sword is indeed a very interesting one.

Sources clearly point to the Kastane Sword in the final form - lion head pommel, monster quillons etc., being found in the Dutch Period of Ceylon's history [mid 17th century to the late 18th century] as a sword denoting rank or authority. The British period comes thereafter and continued till the mid 20th century.

The lion form has significance to the Sinhalese people and has been utilized in their art, including in the Kastana hilt. However, the form that is found on your sword hilt is not one that I have come across so far. Particularly the form of half lion, half human - probably a shamanistic form where the human merges with the spirit of the lion in a trance state - could not be traced in Sinhalese art. Although shamanistic practices are still found in the country; with the influence of Buddhism such practices have moved away from the mainstream. Thus shamanistic art is rare in Ceylon. I am aware of one instance of deer headed human forms prancing about though there are cobra headed humans which represent not a shamanistic form but a race of people called the Nagas (Cobra).

Another feature of interest is that the quillon heads are facing different directions - one towards the point and the other towards the pommel. This too is not found in any Sinhalese swords I have examined and to me appears a distinct European feature. May be Jim can help here.

The wooden hilt with the wooden quillons is also curious. The quillons would certainly not serve its purpose not being of stout enough construction. I do not have the 'Price Guide" and 'Swords and Hilt Weapons'. Do they give the origin of the similar swords as Ceylon and in these words are the quillons also fashioned out of Ivory? Could this be an attempt at someone recreating a damaged hilt? The wood appears closer to rosewood of India?

Jim has a comment on a 'star' design. In fact the Dutch heraldry also has the combination of the four dots and star (probably a four petalled flower) as given in the illustration from a Design of a seal proposed for the Raad van Justitie of Colombo in 1666. Note the quillons facing different directions.

Mark - could you post a photograph of the entire sword? I am curious to know what the curvature and the point look like. Also what is the arm wrapped round the lion's waist? I am not getting a full picture of what is on the hilt and the guard.

Sorry for raising more questions than answers on this.

Regards.

M ELEY · 30th March 2010, 01:43 PM

Hello Anandalal,

I'll have to take a shot of the whole blade as soon as I get a chance. The blade is just like a falchion's, swelling toward the point and then coming to the typical edge. I still feel Cornelis has nailed this one on the head, being of Singhalese origin where it possesses just enough of the kastane's features to show its origins while pointing to a weapon for export to the Dutch market. The sword mentioned in the previous volumes is a hanger with fine ivory hilt in this exact pattern, only much more detailed. It was listed as Singhalese and made probably for the Dutch EIC, although the pic doesn't show any marking to stake this theory of company use down concretely.

The heraldry you list does indeed show patterns of diamond-like dots and as seen on the dump coin, they used this pattern as found on my sword. My personal opinion as to the origin of this cross-like pattern of diamonds is that it goes back to the early Ceylon empire and the maneless lion coin I mention above dating to 200 A.D. Perhaps when the Shri Lanken people began creating the lion-hilt swords, they remembered their ancient lion coins and it's symbol, placing it here.(As both you and Jim pointed out, they had a great fondness for the lion in their culture). Later, as the Dutch produced coins and later swords, they might have adapted this early marking. This isn't too much of a stretch as Jim pointed out that the stuvier also has what appears to be possible Tamil or Singhalese symbols. Just a theory, but it could fit. In any case, I feel mid/late 17th c. Perhaps mine was an early native model for the later prized copies or was made after them in appreciation for their patterning.

Jim McDougall · 30th March 2010, 05:04 PM

Hi Anandalal,
Im glad you came in on this as well. I was looking forward to yours and Cornelis' thoughts on this outstanding piece, as not only do you both constantly offer asutely well placed observations and examples, but your obvious places in Ceylon and Holland respectively is well placed.

Interesting notes on the therionthropic properties of the lion, which I believe are more toward the theological mythology figures of Hinduism incorporating the lion of Sinhala, in a European style with human limb features. I think this is more the effect sought rather than toward any shamanic properties.
While the lionhead was key in the 18th century hilt motif in Great Britain by about the period of this sword, as noted it also was present in the gold lionheads in Holland.
In addition to that European influence, as you have observed, the opposed or alternating quillon terminals are indeed a European affectation seen often on many hilt configurations, especially on hangers. It may be pointed out that this feature also became apparant in a number of weapons such as the dadao in China and others.

It is important to emphasize the nature of this sword, which actually corresponds to the swords of the European gentry which became known curiously as 'pillow swords' as it was thought they were kept as personal protection in personal chambers. Actually these simple cross hilt swords were 'walking swords', and intended to represent status in a fashionable accoutrement sense. While the fragile materials of the hilts decry thier effectiveness in pitched combat, their primary function was image, even though they had limited degree as weapons.

Good observation on the four dot star or rosette, and its place in the heraldic use. Actually rather than a strategic symbolic device, I think that most of the interpretations of this device can be construed temporally in many ways. However, it seems quite likely in may simply represent the quatrefoil, which like the four leaf clover is a positively charged symbol representing good luck and in some perspective, the cross.

I still maintain that this sword, like the examples seen in ivory and I believe even crystal (though I have not yet seen an example of these, but the material was used at the time), these status oriented swords were produced in ports of call or trade locations for European consumption rather than use by Ceylonese people. Just as noted earlier, many of these style swords were produced for presentation to important merchants and traders in these regions, as image was of course keenly important in the dealings in trade.
Elaborate and sumptuously decorated hilts represented elevated status of the individual to his clients and prospective buyers, and his success would suggest power and install confidence in transactions, a well known practice through all times and cultures.

A fantastically important and historic sword!!!

All very best regards,
Jim

M ELEY · 2nd March 2012, 07:22 AM

Dredging up this one again concerning the primer on the blade. Opinions as to whether you think this was applied to the blade during time of use to retard rusting (especially if it was a merchant/sea sword where priming the hilts/blades not uncommon) or done later as preservative.

Secondly, if done later, should I attempt to remove it and if so, how?

M ELEY · 29th March 2014, 03:41 AM

Bumping this thread...

30th March 2010, 02:04 AM	#3
Anandalal N. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 84	Dear Mark, Your sword is indeed a very interesting one. Sources clearly point to the Kastane Sword in the final form - lion head pommel, monster quillons etc., being found in the Dutch Period of Ceylon's history [mid 17th century to the late 18th century] as a sword denoting rank or authority. The British period comes thereafter and continued till the mid 20th century. The lion form has significance to the Sinhalese people and has been utilized in their art, including in the Kastana hilt. However, the form that is found on your sword hilt is not one that I have come across so far. Particularly the form of half lion, half human - probably a shamanistic form where the human merges with the spirit of the lion in a trance state - could not be traced in Sinhalese art. Although shamanistic practices are still found in the country; with the influence of Buddhism such practices have moved away from the mainstream. Thus shamanistic art is rare in Ceylon. I am aware of one instance of deer headed human forms prancing about though there are cobra headed humans which represent not a shamanistic form but a race of people called the Nagas (Cobra). Another feature of interest is that the quillon heads are facing different directions - one towards the point and the other towards the pommel. This too is not found in any Sinhalese swords I have examined and to me appears a distinct European feature. May be Jim can help here. The wooden hilt with the wooden quillons is also curious. The quillons would certainly not serve its purpose not being of stout enough construction. I do not have the 'Price Guide" and 'Swords and Hilt Weapons'. Do they give the origin of the similar swords as Ceylon and in these words are the quillons also fashioned out of Ivory? Could this be an attempt at someone recreating a damaged hilt? The wood appears closer to rosewood of India? Jim has a comment on a 'star' design. In fact the Dutch heraldry also has the combination of the four dots and star (probably a four petalled flower) as given in the illustration from a Design of a seal proposed for the Raad van Justitie of Colombo in 1666. Note the quillons facing different directions. Mark - could you post a photograph of the entire sword? I am curious to know what the curvature and the point look like. Also what is the arm wrapped round the lion's waist? I am not getting a full picture of what is on the hilt and the guard. Sorry for raising more questions than answers on this. Regards. Attached Images

27th March 2010, 07:59 PM	#1
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Hi Jim, my pleasure I think the dots only represent "the cross", usually on voc swords the date is placed between 2 of those dot crosses. best regards

27th March 2010, 10:14 PM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	A profound 'thank you', Cornelis and Jim for your valuable input on this sword. Its origin has been troubling me for over a decade and now I can finally see a clear picture of its history. Of course, I couldn't be more happier, as a colony piece such as this very likely could have seen sea service. Again, I can't thank you enough for solving this mystery! Cheers! Mark

30th March 2010, 01:43 PM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Hello Anandalal, I'll have to take a shot of the whole blade as soon as I get a chance. The blade is just like a falchion's, swelling toward the point and then coming to the typical edge. I still feel Cornelis has nailed this one on the head, being of Singhalese origin where it possesses just enough of the kastane's features to show its origins while pointing to a weapon for export to the Dutch market. The sword mentioned in the previous volumes is a hanger with fine ivory hilt in this exact pattern, only much more detailed. It was listed as Singhalese and made probably for the Dutch EIC, although the pic doesn't show any marking to stake this theory of company use down concretely. The heraldry you list does indeed show patterns of diamond-like dots and as seen on the dump coin, they used this pattern as found on my sword. My personal opinion as to the origin of this cross-like pattern of diamonds is that it goes back to the early Ceylon empire and the maneless lion coin I mention above dating to 200 A.D. Perhaps when the Shri Lanken people began creating the lion-hilt swords, they remembered their ancient lion coins and it's symbol, placing it here.(As both you and Jim pointed out, they had a great fondness for the lion in their culture). Later, as the Dutch produced coins and later swords, they might have adapted this early marking. This isn't too much of a stretch as Jim pointed out that the stuvier also has what appears to be possible Tamil or Singhalese symbols. Just a theory, but it could fit. In any case, I feel mid/late 17th c. Perhaps mine was an early native model for the later prized copies or was made after them in appreciation for their patterning.

30th March 2010, 05:04 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Hi Anandalal, Im glad you came in on this as well. I was looking forward to yours and Cornelis' thoughts on this outstanding piece, as not only do you both constantly offer asutely well placed observations and examples, but your obvious places in Ceylon and Holland respectively is well placed. Interesting notes on the therionthropic properties of the lion, which I believe are more toward the theological mythology figures of Hinduism incorporating the lion of Sinhala, in a European style with human limb features. I think this is more the effect sought rather than toward any shamanic properties. While the lionhead was key in the 18th century hilt motif in Great Britain by about the period of this sword, as noted it also was present in the gold lionheads in Holland. In addition to that European influence, as you have observed, the opposed or alternating quillon terminals are indeed a European affectation seen often on many hilt configurations, especially on hangers. It may be pointed out that this feature also became apparant in a number of weapons such as the dadao in China and others. It is important to emphasize the nature of this sword, which actually corresponds to the swords of the European gentry which became known curiously as 'pillow swords' as it was thought they were kept as personal protection in personal chambers. Actually these simple cross hilt swords were 'walking swords', and intended to represent status in a fashionable accoutrement sense. While the fragile materials of the hilts decry thier effectiveness in pitched combat, their primary function was image, even though they had limited degree as weapons. Good observation on the four dot star or rosette, and its place in the heraldic use. Actually rather than a strategic symbolic device, I think that most of the interpretations of this device can be construed temporally in many ways. However, it seems quite likely in may simply represent the quatrefoil, which like the four leaf clover is a positively charged symbol representing good luck and in some perspective, the cross. I still maintain that this sword, like the examples seen in ivory and I believe even crystal (though I have not yet seen an example of these, but the material was used at the time), these status oriented swords were produced in ports of call or trade locations for European consumption rather than use by Ceylonese people. Just as noted earlier, many of these style swords were produced for presentation to important merchants and traders in these regions, as image was of course keenly important in the dealings in trade. Elaborate and sumptuously decorated hilts represented elevated status of the individual to his clients and prospective buyers, and his success would suggest power and install confidence in transactions, a well known practice through all times and cultures. A fantastically important and historic sword!!! All very best regards, Jim

2nd March 2012, 07:22 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Dredging up this one again concerning the primer on the blade. Opinions as to whether you think this was applied to the blade during time of use to retard rusting (especially if it was a merchant/sea sword where priming the hilts/blades not uncommon) or done later as preservative. Secondly, if done later, should I attempt to remove it and if so, how?

29th March 2014, 03:41 AM	#7
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Bumping this thread...