keris melayu for comment

hanggoye · 25th March 2010, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

Judging from the gandik style and ganja, I think this is a Kelantanese carita.

The secondary fullers extending to the fourth luk is unusual. I've never seen anything like that before. It has a disconcerting effect as it is like a end-luk that terminates to the right.

i also think this is kelantanese blade but not sure what type of kelantanese blade..

can i get more detail what you mean about 2nd paragraph of your comment bluerf?

David · 25th March 2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanggoye

i also think this is kelantanese blade but not sure what type of kelantanese blade..

can i get more detail what you mean about 2nd paragraph of your comment bluerf?

BluErf has described the type of Kelantanese blade this is. It is what is known as "carita".
If you look at your blade you can see that the fullers within the body of the blade come to a point in the fourth luk creating a profile of a blade within the blade. The point of this profile begins to turn to the right (in the last photo). If you look to the actual end of your keris the actual point turns in the other direction, towards the front edge of the blade. If we were to just look at this inner profile formed by the fullers we can count 4 luks, an even amount. Because keris luks are always an odd number your point always terminates towards the front edge of the blade. I think Kai Wee finds this inner blade disconcerting because it terminates in the other direction.

PenangsangII · 26th March 2010, 11:01 AM

I totally agree with kai Wee and David....

DAHenkel · 27th March 2010, 12:17 AM

Woah, sorry guys but hold your horses a second. This one looks way more Pattani to me than Kelantan. The ganja is a bit taller than most but overall its very Pattani. The sheath is also much more Pattani. Hanggoye, is the blade original to the sheath? Would be nice to see the hilt but I'm 90% certain this keris came from north of the border...

hanggoye · 27th March 2010, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

Woah, sorry guys but hold your horses a second. This one looks way more Pattani to me than Kelantan. The ganja is a bit taller than most but overall its very Pattani. The sheath is also much more Pattani. Hanggoye, is the blade original to the sheath? Would be nice to see the hilt but I'm 90% certain this keris came from north of the border...

hye dahenkel

thanx dahenkel for your comment..yes, this is original sheath..about the ganja yes, it's bigger..the wide of this keris is about 4inch..

can i know why you think this keris is from pattani dahenkel and do you thing this blade are all origin??

regards

Alam Shah · 27th March 2010, 01:53 AM

Imho, this is a keris cherita (cerita/carita) from Pattani.. with its fuller and base features.. a Northern Peninsular blade. The 'tebeng' sheath style could be misleading.. Does the blade sits well in its sheath? Can we have a picture from the top and front, while the blade is in its sheath..

hanggoye · 27th March 2010, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

Imho, this is a keris cherita (cerita/carita) from Pattani.. with its fuller and base features.. a Northern Peninsular blade. The 'tebeng' sheath style could be misleading.. Does the blade sits well in its sheath? Can we have a picture from the top and front, while the blade is in its sheath..

hye alam shah,

thanx for your comment and i know you have seen this blade at my friend site in multiply..i just want him to put this for discussion since i don't have acc anymore..

i dont know either this is original sheath or not but the blade is sits well in this sheath.. i will pos the pic as request after this...

tq alam shah dropping the comment here...

regards

ganjawulung · 27th March 2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

Imho, this is a keris cherita (cerita/carita) from Pattani.. with its fuller and base features.. a Northern Peninsular blade. The 'tebeng' sheath style could be misleading.. Does the blade sits well in its sheath? Can we have a picture from the top and front, while the blade is in its sheath..

Dear Shahrial,
Maybe this is a stupid question. Is there any relevance, between name of "cherita" or cerita/carita of this 9 luks keris with dhapur's name in javanese keris' idiom? Would you enlighten me, is there any book on names of dhapur of Pattani kerises, or Kelantani kerises?
My question is related with my confuseness on names and naming of dhapur. Because what I know in javanese keris term, if I'm not mistaken, dhapur carita (or some variants of dhapur carita) comes with 11 luks (carita, carita bungkem, carita daleman, carita gandhu, carita genengan, carita keprabon, carita prasaja -- with only slight differenceS in very small details in each carita), and also comes with 15 luks carita buntala, luk 17 carita klenthang or kalenthang...
Does the name of "carita" or "cerita" in Pattani or Kelantan kerises have relation with "carita" in javanese term which means more or less, "story" or "tales"?
I apologize for my ignorance...

GANJAWULUNG

DAHenkel · 28th March 2010, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanggoye

hye dahenkel

thanx dahenkel for your comment..yes, this is original sheath..about the ganja yes, it's bigger..the wide of this keris is about 4inch..

can i know why you think this keris is from pattani dahenkel and do you thing this blade are all origin??

regards

It is not always very easy to tell the difference between Kelantan and Pattani blades. Pattani had a lot of influence on Kelantan and many Pattani craftsmen migrated to Kelantan - especially after the Thai took over. I have spent a great deal of time with Nik Rashidee talking and looking at kerises from Kelantan and Pattani but even then we sometimes cannot tell which is which. As a general rule Pattani kerises tend to be a bit slimmer and less stocky. They tend to have longer, thinner ganja and gandik. However these are only general rules and can't always be relied upon exclusively. The dress can tell you a lot if it is original to the blade but as has already been pointed out that's also a minefield. The sheath of your piece is very Pattani looking to me but I would have to see it in person I think to be 100% certain. Sometimes, how something looks in photos can be very deceptive.

ganjawulung · 28th March 2010, 06:24 AM

Just for comparison, this is "carita keprabon" or literally means "royal carita", one variant of among dhapurs of caritas in javanese keris world... Usually carita dhapur is 11 luks or more...

GANJAWULUNG

28th March 2010, 06:24 AM	#10
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	CARITA (javanese version) Just for comparison, this is "carita keprabon" or literally means "royal carita", one variant of among dhapurs of caritas in javanese keris world... Usually carita dhapur is 11 luks or more... GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

26th March 2010, 11:01 AM	#3
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	I totally agree with kai Wee and David....

27th March 2010, 12:17 AM	#4
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	Woah, sorry guys but hold your horses a second. This one looks way more Pattani to me than Kelantan. The ganja is a bit taller than most but overall its very Pattani. The sheath is also much more Pattani. Hanggoye, is the blade original to the sheath? Would be nice to see the hilt but I'm 90% certain this keris came from north of the border...

27th March 2010, 01:53 AM	#6
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Imho, this is a keris cherita (cerita/carita) from Pattani.. with its fuller and base features.. a Northern Peninsular blade. The 'tebeng' sheath style could be misleading.. Does the blade sits well in its sheath? Can we have a picture from the top and front, while the blade is in its sheath..