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Old 5th November 2009, 06:42 PM   #1
kino
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Talking Filipino Slam Fire Rifle

My first encounter with a Filipino slam fire rifle. Acquired it with other Philippine stuff including a sword cane.
Village made, it' heavy and has a smooth bore barrel, wooden foregrip has some carvings, the butt stock is plain. Brass / copper (?), bands secures the rifle together. Check out the shell ejector, spring steel
It amuses me that it has a front post sight..
Could be a Moro piece, okir adornment on the bottom brass strap of the stock.

Comments on it's age and possible area of origin?
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Old 5th November 2009, 11:14 PM   #2
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Were slam-fire rifles common in the Philippines?
How exactly does the slam-fire mechanism work?

...if safe enough, I might attempt a homemade version...
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Old 5th November 2009, 11:46 PM   #3
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Cool find, Kino

First time I've seen that design ...

There's a similar piece, though much more rough -- it's a Filipino Phil.-Am. War rifle-cannon from the Smithsonian (pic below), which was probably made in haste during the war period itself.

The museum's description:

Dimensions: 5" (12.7 cm) height x 49" (124.5 cm) width x 1.75" (4.4 cm) depth

Physical Description: Handmade Filipino gun

General History: Filipinos fighting the United State Army resorted to making their own firearms. This handmade gun harkens back to the earliest of firearms, the hand cannon. The gun was muzzle-loaded and the charge was set off by applying fire to a touch hole in the side of the barrel.


The one I've personally seen is another Filipino hand cannon, used during the same period, and it's in this thread.

What's the caliber of your piece, approximately?
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Old 6th November 2009, 12:34 AM   #4
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Searching on terms Paliuntod or paltik will provide more information. As it is, I'm wondering how you aim one of these beasts.

Best,

F
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Old 6th November 2009, 12:39 AM   #5
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Slam fire means that the firing pin is fixed and the cartridge is held clear of it, to discharge it's jerked back so the pin strikes the primer, and ignites the powder charge and fires it, the recoil keeps things together. Works kinda like a power-head or some kinds of captive-bolt gun.

They're typically called paliuntods, and can vary from rough pipe-bombs with an uncapped end, to decent-if-crude firearms.
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Old 6th November 2009, 12:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KuKulzA28
How exactly does the slam-fire mechanism work?

...if safe enough, I might attempt a homemade version...


How it works:

Place one hand on the foregrip, pull slightly forward (photo #2), this gives the user access to the breech (photo #3), load ordinance, aim , pull the front end of the rifle back with some force, so the firing pin makes hard
contact with the primer....oops misfire, try again.

If you're ever in Seattle, give me a call and you can test fire mine, but first you must sign a waiver and leave a deposit.


Quote:
What's the caliber of your piece, approximately?


I have no idea, I'll have to get some spent brass casings (30-40 Krag, 30-06, .308. 7.7 Jap....410 shot shell possibly), and try it out.
This rifle doesn't have the appearance of being made in haste, it has a lot of detail work.
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Old 6th November 2009, 07:01 AM   #7
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Dam, what a cool toy to have in your collection.
Supposedly some of the Filipinos did not believe in the "rear sight". Some accounts mention the Filipinos taking off the rear sight, believing they only needed the front. Gen MacArthur was asked about this, and he believed many of the Filipinos were typically ignorant farmers who were handed rifles with no training and had no clue how they worked.
This is not the norm though...there are plenty of pics of Filipinos touting rifles with rear sights.
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Old 6th November 2009, 12:13 PM   #8
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w w!!! nice paltik, kino! i wonder how many of these are still in existence...
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Old 6th November 2009, 04:39 PM   #9
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thanks for sharing - not seen these before and good to see the okir on the bottom.
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Old 6th November 2009, 05:13 PM   #10
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Default pugakang

Ilonggos (Panay) in the Philippines have been making these improvised shotguns up to 1972, when martial law was declared and prohibited the possession of unlicensed firearms.

I remember they called it "pugakang". The center of production was centered around Pototan town, northeast of Iloilo.

Spunjer might remember this.
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Old 8th November 2009, 04:47 AM   #11
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Believe it or not. During WWII, a version of this weapon was made by Harrington and Richardson, in the US. They were air dropped to guerilla units, fighting the Japanese. The stocks, are even branded, "Guerilla Gun".
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Old 8th November 2009, 10:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nacho
Ilonggos (Panay) in the Philippines have been making these improvised shotguns up to 1972, when martial law was declared and prohibited the possession of unlicensed firearms.

I remember they called it "pugakang". The center of production was centered around Pototan town, northeast of Iloilo.

Spunjer might remember this.



nacho,
the pugakang i remember were the ones used by "Familia-Familias" (Frats in manila, gangbangers here in the states)....
didn't know Pototan was the center of production. lol, that wasn't too far from Tabuk Suba, where we used to lived...
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Old 8th November 2009, 03:29 PM   #13
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Danao was just a several minutes away from where I used to live.
Danao is suppose to be the paltik capital of the PI

Photo of a paltik below.


Quote:
Believe it or not. During WWII, a version of this weapon was made by Harrington and Richardson, in the US. They were air dropped to guerilla units, fighting the Japanese. The stocks, are even branded, "Guerilla Gun".


I have heard of the Liberator Pistols being dropped behind enemy lines, I have seen a few of the pistols for sale. Now I have to search for the Guerilla Gun.
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Old 9th November 2009, 02:34 AM   #14
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Maranao warriors, circa 1900's....
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Old 9th November 2009, 02:42 PM   #15
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But Moro warriors did not just use improvised guns. Based on Spanish accounts in the 1800s, the moros also used imported firearms. I recently acquired an 1856 British Enfield from a moro family. They claim it has been with their family for several generations. The Enfield has a TOWER mark (with 1856 0n top) and the usual Crown and VR (Victoria Regina) mark.

There are numerous accounts of the Sultan of Sulu trying to acquire British guns by way of Singapore.

A number of 1856 Enfields were sent to India for the British East India Company. Sikhs in the British Army rebelled when rumor spread that the paper-wrapped cartridge of the Enfield was coated with animal fat.

I am sure these guns were traded extensively in the area -- including the Sulu zone.
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Old 10th March 2010, 05:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nacho
...

A number of 1856 Enfields were sent to India for the British East India Company. Sikhs in the British Army rebelled when rumor spread that the paper-wrapped cartridge of the Enfield was coated with animal fat.
...


ref: 1857 Sepoy Rebellion

bit of a mixup there, the Sikhs and the Gurkhas supported the British in supressing the mutiny. the sikhs also have no particular aversion to beef or pork*, unlike the islamic and hindu sepoys. the cartridges by the way were greased with vegetable fat, but rumors do not need to be true. the wiki article referenced lists the 1853 enfields as being the ones that provoked the cartridge story....

*- some sikhs believe they should ultimately be vegitarian, but the only prohibition is against eating meat slaughtered in the muslim ritual way:

Sikh Rehat Maryada
— In the Rehat Maryada, section six, it states:

The undermentioned four transgressions (tabooed practices) must be avoided:

1. Dishonouring the hair
2. Eating the meat of an animal slaughtered the Muslim way (Kutha)
3. Cohabiting with a person other than one's spouse
4. Using tobacco.

i found a reference stating sikhs would refrain from eating beef in india out of respect for their hindu neighbours, but would cook up a mess of pig's feet for the muslims they converted to sikhism as a test...


(just noticed this thread when redirected from a more contemporary thread)

Last edited by kronckew : 10th March 2010 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 10th March 2010, 07:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
... the sikhs also have no particular aversion to beef or pork* ...


So true. The best 'sarapatel' i have ever eaten was in a local Tandoori restaurant, where the owners are Sikh.

Fernando
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Old 10th March 2010, 07:28 PM   #18
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my elderly neighbour's daughter's ex husband is a sikh, he's divorced from her now, but their kid's were over here from nepal for the holidays (she's now married to a nepali doctor) he cooked a traditional english thanksgiving dinner for them and i got an invite, we had turkey along with a ham and pork sausages, plenty of booze and a good time had by all. i wound up showing him my tulwar and some of the northern indian and other daggers etc. i have and we got along well. he had no trouble eating. he likes cooking. anyhow, makes me notice sikh and gurkha items in the news and on forums a bit more....

i do not recall coming across 'sarapatel' in portugal when i was there last, i am a meat-a-holic as are most portugese i noticed. my then wife was a vegitarian and we had trouble finding vegitarian dishes for her. she ate a lot of salads. anyhow i'll keep it in mind. i still cook a portugese soup (Açorda à Alentejana or "sopa alentejana") i got addicted to made with broth, garlic, olive oil, bunches of chopped coriander (cilantro). bread and an egg.... if i get enterprising i also throw in some sliced sausage. and served with port or vinho verde.....


Last edited by kronckew : 10th March 2010 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 10th March 2010, 11:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
made with broth, garlic, olive oil, bunches of chopped coriander (cilantro). bread and an egg.... if i get enterprising i also throw in some sliced sausage. and served with port or vinho verde.....




didn't know my eyes could pop that far out
yet another thing to drool over on this forum, and for once it's edible and not too sharp
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Old 11th March 2010, 12:39 AM   #20
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Now a good Kale Soup can't be beat .
But,
That looks plain yummy .
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Old 11th March 2010, 06:07 AM   #21
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Açorda à Alentejana

basic recipe:

SERVES 4
Ingredients

* 4 garlic cloves ( i use more)

* 1 teaspoon sea salt (too much for me, i use 1/4 teaspoon)

* 1/2 cup olive oil (less is OK, use at least 4 tablespoons)

* 4 tablespoons or more of fresh coriander, chopped (cilantro), more is good.

* 1 pint boiling water (2 cups)

* 4 slices bread, crusty hard bread, like french, is better.

* 4 eggs (poached)

Directions

1. Mince the garlic and mix with the salt in a soup pan.
2. Add the olive oil and chopped coriander (cilantro) then add the boiled water and stir well. - do not re-boil.
3. Heat a separate pan of water and gently drop in your eggs to poach them.
4. Serve the garlic soup into individual dishes, place a slice of bread on top of each and then gently top with one poached egg per plate. add ground black pepper to season. garnish on top with more cilantro.

variations: bruise the garlic and coriander together in a mortar. poach the eggs, saving the water to use as the soup stock. use chicken stock. add chicken breast pieces or dried cod (dried cod must be rehydrated and otherwise prepared 1st - i never use it) never use chicken AND cod. i sometimes add firm sausage slices (like keilbasa - not sure what the portugese equivalent would be). when in doubt use more coriander. i put the bread in the bowl, then top it with the egg, pour soup over it and garnish with more coriander.

i'm sure fernando will have some more suggestions.

i started drooling last nite when i wrote post no. 18, so i made up some using pickled garlic, preserved coriander in a jar. not nearly as good as fresh. over here fresh coriander is easy to find in quantity as it is used in indian cooking....i feel a shopping trip coming on later today.

note the photo has a knife in it to keep it forum related.

Last edited by kronckew : 11th March 2010 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 11th March 2010, 06:36 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kino
My first encounter with a Filipino slam fire rifle. Acquired it with other Philippine stuff including a sword cane.
Village made, it' heavy and has a smooth bore barrel, wooden foregrip has some carvings, the butt stock is plain. Brass / copper (?), bands secures the rifle together. Check out the shell ejector, spring steel
It amuses me that it has a front post sight..
Could be a Moro piece, okir adornment on the bottom brass strap of the stock.

Comments on it's age and possible area of origin?


A great find, congrats!! I'd love to see the sword cane too, one of my first loves in the edged weapons world.
There are a number of modern pump action shotguns that can be used as slam fire too, an Ithica model is one from memory, after the first shot you don't have to pull the trigger, only keep pumping the action to keep shooting....

Again, a nice rare and unusual find.

Gav
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Old 11th March 2010, 01:44 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
ref: 1857 Sepoy Rebellion

bit of a mixup there, the Sikhs and the Gurkhas supported the British in supressing the mutiny. the sikhs also have no particular aversion to beef or pork*, unlike the islamic and hindu sepoys. the cartridges by the way were greased with vegetable fat, but rumors do not need to be true. the wiki article referenced lists the 1853 enfields as being the ones that provoked the cartridge story....

(just noticed this thread when redirected from a more contemporary thread)


Thanks. Yes, indeed I mixed it up. It was the Sepoys who rebelled and the Sikhs fought with the British. The Pattern 1853 Enfield was made up to the 1860s. Since the revolt happened in 1857, I just assumed the 1856 Enfields were the culprit. But the 1856 made Enfields would still be strictly speaking officially called Pattern 1853s. Thanks for the clarification.
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Old 11th March 2010, 01:57 PM   #24
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i remember seeing an early-1900s pic of a filipina holding a rifle similar to the one posted by kino.

but can't find that at the moment. the one i found is below. pic came from here.

on another matter, would anybody have any guess as to the type of bolo the man has?
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Old 11th March 2010, 03:15 PM   #25
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Miguel,

The sword is either a Visayan binangon with a crocodile head or your Luzviminda sword!
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Old 11th March 2010, 03:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
Açorda à Alentejana

.


I must admit that this picture looks like the 3D version of reality; one feels an impulse to pick a spoon and start consuming it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
... i'm sure fernando will have some more suggestions...

Corandier is the big trick; most used in cooking in this region of Alentejo as in the whole Southern part (Algarve), is practicaly ignored in the North, where i live. My wife uses it, though; you can't cook cockles without it.
Sarapatel is a dish made with little sautee offal cubes of pork, goat kid or lamb.
It was born in high Alentejo and was adopted and adapted in Brazil and Portuguese India (Goa Damão and Diu).
In Goa they make it with pork meat, kidney, liver and heart. Spices are Indian pepper, clove, saffron, cinnamon, corandier, cumin, ginger, garlik and tamarind. Also optional picked onnion and vinegar.
In Portugal they use more the lamb and goat and the spices differ a bit; cooked blood is a vital part.
Next month i will visit my daughter in Lisbon and will go a typical restaurant in the House of Goa, with the strong intent to taste their sarapatel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kronckew
... note the photo has a knife in it to keep it forum related.

Sorry my photos don't have a knife; i hope you don't tie me to the whiping post.

Fernando

.
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Old 18th March 2010, 06:19 PM   #27
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Never knew I had this until I was thumbing through some of my old photos today.

I discretely took this picture at the Aguinaldo House/Shrine in Kawit Cavite back in 2005. Photography is prohibited in all museums/shrines in the Philippines.
You can see the two slam fire rifles similar to Kinos.


The other two bare rifles look to be Remington Rolling Blocks minus the wood stocks. Don't remember the info on the bottom sword. And sorry, I didn't get a chance to take a pic of the captions.
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Old 9th January 2013, 10:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trenchwarfare
Believe it or not. During WWII, a version of this weapon was made by Harrington and Richardson, in the US. They were air dropped to guerilla units, fighting the Japanese. The stocks, are even branded, "Guerilla Gun".



I was going through some old posts, and came across this. I must correct myself.
H&R, did NOT make the "Guerilla Gun", for use in WWII. They were made post war, by Richardson Industries. The company was started by Iliff D. Richardson. He has the distinction of being one of the oly US personnel, to hold rank in the USN, and US Army. Being both Ensign, and Captain. He stayed behind in the Filippines, to organize a resistance movement, and also over saw the mfg. of Paliuntod guns. These were of better quality than the local examples. After the war, he tried to make them commercially, but the venture was an utter failure. Richardson "Guerilla Guns" are scarce, and fairly expensive. Sorry for the misinformation.
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Old 9th January 2013, 10:41 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trenchwarfare
Believe it or not. During WWII, a version of this weapon was made by Harrington and Richardson, in the US. They were air dropped to guerilla units, fighting the Japanese. The stocks, are even branded, "Guerilla Gun".



I was going through some old posts, and came across this. I must correct myself.
H&R, did NOT make the "Guerilla Gun", for use in WWII. They were made post war, by Richardson Industries. The company was started by Iliff D. Richardson. He has the distinction of being one of the oly US personnel, to hold rank in the USN, and US Army. Being both Ensign, and Captain. He stayed behind in the Filippines, to organize a resistance movement, and also over saw the mfg. of Paliuntod guns. These were of better quality than the local examples. After the war, he tried to make them commercially, but the venture was an utter failure. Richardson "Guerilla Guns" are scarce, and fairly expensive. Sorry for the misinformation.
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Old 10th January 2013, 10:43 PM   #30
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There's a you tube video out there of a Richardson slam-fire being fired. Thing still works.

My question: does anyone know of a paliuntod associated with Richardson, or at least with the WWII resistance?
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