Moro Twist Core Reborn

mross · 9th March 2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip

Also, there was a little brass strip alongside the grip that formed an "L" shape and terminated in a point along the short side of the ganja. It's a very thin, flimsy thing. I re-attached it before Charles did the cord wrap, and I could find no evidence that an asang-asang was ever mounted to it. If one of these stirrups were at one time attached there, one would expect the remnant of solder, a "shadow" or ghost in the patination of the metal, something like that. But nada. As Charles said, there was no evidence of metal ferrule or pommel band on the grip, and since this is such an early piece whose hilting may well be the original style, it was decided to restore it conservatively and not add anything.

Likewise, Mike and I agreed that the scabbard should strongly reflect the Malay traditions so evident in the blade, so the replacement sheath was designed accordingly.

If you look at the last picture I posted it shows the brass strip Philip is talking about. It did not look broken, and I can't for the life of me figure out what it is for. Any ideas?

Bill · 9th March 2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

If you look at the last picture I posted it shows the brass strip Philip is talking about. It did not look broken, and I can't for the life of me figure out what it is for. Any ideas?

It may have been for a future stirrup. It seems more common to have two separate pieces for the baca-baca; one going around the gangya & then a strip bent around the first piece & down the hilt. The owner might not have had the money for the stirrup but wanted the strip in place before the hilt wrap was done. Then the stirrup could be added latter.

Do you plan on posting your latest twist core? Always interesting to see these "18C" type kris.

hideyoshi · 9th March 2010, 09:54 PM

A few moro krises do have this unique designs 18th-19th C. It covers the entire top portion of the guard. This more likely to be seen on metal handled krises (brass, copper, silver and even in low grade gold are often used) Some are also ingraved to match the handle. I think this is added to beautify the look of the sword. Here's an example.

mross · 9th March 2010, 10:23 PM

Very, very nice. So it's just for looks, that makes sense. I could not see it doing anything, it's way to flimsy. Thanks.

Rick · 9th March 2010, 10:41 PM

I have a problem with this piece .
The resto is very nice .
But
I don't believe that the hilt is original to the piece, rather a later replacement of the original .

The hilt is not the same caliber of quality as the kris .
It may have lost its stirrups so long ago that there is no trace of their existence left .

Gavin Nugent · 27th March 2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I have a problem with this piece .
The resto is very nice .
But
I don't believe that the hilt is original to the piece, rather a later replacement of the original .

The hilt is not the same caliber of quality as the kris .
It may have lost its stirrups so long ago that there is no trace of their existence left .

The hilt can well be a later replacement and probably is but by later I would say a period replacement circa 1900ish, I say this as the image on page 53 of Cato's Moro Swords shows one that is almost in identical profile so very possible when redone it was a true reflection of the original....

Gav

hideyoshi · 9th March 2010, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Very, very nice. So it's just for looks, that makes sense. I could not see it doing anything, it's way to flimsy. Thanks.

This are so thinly covering to the guard, the tang portion was pre-cut and the plate is stapled with 3-4 tinny spikes into the metal guard and then finally re-inforced with the clamp/asang-asang, most i've seen had been badly damaged. Your's is missing the grenning side covering of the guard.

mross · 9th March 2010, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hideyoshi

This are so thinly covering to the guard, the tang portion was pre-cut and the plate is stapled with 3-4 tinny spikes into the metal guard and then finally inforced with the clamp/asang-asang, most i've seen had been badly damaged. Your's is missing the grenning side covering of the guard.

Looks that way. That seems to support Rick's thoughts about a replacement hilt. The grenning side was lost during the re-hilt. I can buy that. If anyone is wondering the original wrap is not lost, it was saved.

Gavin Nugent · 10th March 2010, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Looks that way. That seems to support Rick's thoughts about a replacement hilt. The grenning side was lost during the re-hilt. I can buy that. If anyone is wondering the original wrap is not lost, it was saved.

Great to hear. I never did look at it too close but is appeared to be very unusual, what material do you think it is? I kinda got an old knitted wool kinda feel but the 2 brain cells are struggling to recall.

Gav

ThePepperSkull · 10th March 2010, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

Very, very nice. So it's just for looks, that makes sense. I could not see it doing anything, it's way to flimsy. Thanks.

Definitely could have been there for decorative purposes. I have seen some Keris Sundang Melayu with baca-baca that were similarly not attatched to any stirrups as well.

Gavin Nugent · 9th March 2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hideyoshi

A few moro krises do have this unique designs 18th-19th C. It covers the entire top portion of the guard. This more likely to bee seen on metal handled krises (brass, copper, silver and even in low grade gold are often used) Some are also ingraved to match the handle. I think this is added to beautify the look of the sword. Here's an example.

Thanks for sharing hideyoshi. I too pondered this greatly when I handled it. Mystery solved.

As for the asang-asang, I could and still can in one image posted see the evidence of this once being true and in place, albiet a long time removed when it first came to me. I was also taken by the hilt binding, it appeared to me multi coloured layers, dark/light, if only there was more of the original to know if the pattern continued to the pommel.
Personal touches are just that personal. My touches would layer stack every 10mm a different lighter colour for effect as many Kris did have this undulating effect on grip wraps...I would even but a couple of thin rattan strips around the scabbrd for effect...again, my personal touches.

I'll see how my computing skills are when I get home and maybe with some tuition put some pointer arrows on the image that shows where I think the asang-asang was.

Gav

9th March 2010, 09:54 PM	#3
hideyoshi Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 58	A few moro krises do have this unique designs 18th-19th C. It covers the entire top portion of the guard. This more likely to be seen on metal handled krises (brass, copper, silver and even in low grade gold are often used) Some are also ingraved to match the handle. I think this is added to beautify the look of the sword. Here's an example. Attached Images Last edited by hideyoshi; 9th March 2010 at 10:32 PM.

9th March 2010, 10:23 PM	#4
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Very, very nice. So it's just for looks, that makes sense. I could not see it doing anything, it's way to flimsy. Thanks.

9th March 2010, 10:41 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	I have a problem with this piece . The resto is very nice . But I don't believe that the hilt is original to the piece, rather a later replacement of the original . The hilt is not the same caliber of quality as the kris . It may have lost its stirrups so long ago that there is no trace of their existence left .