an insight into museums and collections

Jens Nordlunde · 26th May 2005, 05:43 PM

Michael,

Reading you mail makes me even more sad than reading Brian’s, as Brian saw the result, but you work/fight the problem every day, knowing the fight will be lost, if something drastic is not done. We, the collectors, can only be glad that someone will take up the fight, however difficult it is. I fear the problem is the same all over the World, in some places a bit better than in others, and a disaster in many places.

The economical problem is huge, and I doubt very much, that the solution will come from the governments in the different countries. I can only see one way, a combination of (big) sponsors, (small sponsors) memberships, museum shops and advertising the museum. I Denmark the Toejhumuseum makes fights between the Black and the White knight, on horse and on food, and this seems to attract a lot of people – especially the young ones, but then the parents have to go too, and they make sure the also visit the museum shop and the cafeteria. But I guess you know all this already – I wish I could help.

Jens

wolviex · 26th May 2005, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Michael, Reading you mail makes me even more sad than reading Brian’s

Ok. I think we are tragedize too much. There are many pros of museums any way. Let's see:

Many of the great scholars were working in Museums. Thanks to them we know what we know.

Museums are still the places were you can get experience, you can learn a lot, and last but not least - they're still stimulating centers for science (e.g. historical, archeological etc.)

All in all I think that collections are safe in Museums. For example: my museum was founded in 19th century. It was at the time when Poland didn't politically exist, then it get through 1st WW, 2nd WW and communists regime. Of course there are museums that lost many of the collections during these hard days, but my preserved in very well condition. We could secure evacuation for the objects, and those which stayed were treaten with respects even by invaders. Some of them were stolen, but we still are recovering them from whole world with success. From my military department there were nothing lost! Ironicaly, there were few objects stolen during peaceful times.

Another thing is that collections are safe here in wholeness and hardly ever they are sentenced to dispersion, while I knew and heard about many collectors, whoes work of life after their death was sold out by family on every world's direction. While biggest collections given for museums are treaten with respect and sometimes there are called after the collector's name.

Jens Nordlunde · 26th May 2005, 09:51 PM

Michael,

You may be right that things seldom are stolen from museums – although there are examples, also recently ones. Some suggestions have been brought forward, as how to try to help, and none of them seem to be optimal. You sit in the middle of the situation, what would you suggest? How do you see the future, do you think the museums will get better possibilities for conservation, better exhibitions?

To be quit honest – I don’t, and I don’t want to tell you why, as I would have to get into politics, and would get into troubles with the moderators, but I think you get the idea.

Jens

wolviex · 26th May 2005, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

How do you see the future, do you think the museums will get better possibilities for conservation, better exhibitions?

I'm not optimistic either. I think that Museums are institutions of higher purposes, and it should be funded by government. Of course it's day-dream while not every museum is under government protection, but I can talk only about the biggest, National ones. Museums in Poland, judging from what I can see everyday, won't earn money on tourists. There is not so many of them. And you can't force people to visit museum. Some of them (most of them?) just aren't interestet. Museum is not a cinema where you're going just to relax and fun, it's cultural institution, and because of that for many people it is equal to boring institution! You'll have to change mentality of people to change the rest. There are some ways to increase the income from tourists, but it will be always not enough to keep the institution in life without additional money.
Here in my Museum, when we have to preserve some important object, but project is very expensive, we are depending on sponsors and it works. There are also some other, not museum way of earning money - hiring the local. So we've got fairs and conferences in museal rooms. Sometimes it is grotesque when the exhibition is removed (!!!) for e. g. two days, and then we are installing exhibition again. But there are real big money from such events.
But for real these are very complex problems. I'm not museum theorist but just historic who is trying to get some knowledge about weapons gathered in my Museum, so maybe I'm not the best person for discuss

Rick · 26th May 2005, 11:34 PM

This may sound silly but this discussion of museums and preserving the past brings to mind the great science fiction novel by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle , The Mote In God's Eye .

The book is about an alien race that cannot control its population increase and their society goes through regular cycles of crashes back to the stone age . In that book Museums were used as the keys to redevelopment of technology .

just an OT observation ...

Battara · 27th May 2005, 06:49 AM

Rick, I read part of that book and could not get into it (though I thought the idea of a Scottish space fleet interesting).

There is one exception to this forboding. Here in Louisville, KY, US we have things like the Frazier Arms Museum.

Although attendance is lower than what they would have liked, it displays arms and adds martial and historical re-enactments to the show. Most of the arms displayed come from the basement of the Royal Armouries in Great Britain. Although mostly European and American in focus, there is a smatering of ethnographic stuff. Some of us on this forum have visited and enjoyed.

On a side note, I was originally asked to be a consultant for the museum until the original group working on the internet portion fell apart. Now I'm just another customer.

BluErf · 27th May 2005, 01:41 PM

I understand how collectors feel when they see fantastic specimens that they could hardly get in the market crumble and decay with neglect in a Museum. But lets face it, Museums are not passionate collectors who will take care of their collection with all the loving care they can spare. If the weapons are like our children, Museums are like orphanages. It may not be the best place, but at least some decent care is dished out by the Museums.

Moreover, collectors lose interest, get lazy and forget. A well-kept collection could as easily fall into a decrepit state when the collector falters in his passion. More often than not, collectors pass on and you know what their children do to the collection that they never cared about...

All things are impermanent; all things that are made will eventually be unmade. It is the natural way of things. Clinging on otherwise is probably not going to change much, but it would certainly add more worry lines and white hairs to ourselves. We do what we can and let the rest take its natural course.

26th May 2005, 11:34 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	You Know // probably OT But .. This may sound silly but this discussion of museums and preserving the past brings to mind the great science fiction novel by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle , The Mote In God's Eye . The book is about an alien race that cannot control its population increase and their society goes through regular cycles of crashes back to the stone age . In that book Museums were used as the keys to redevelopment of technology . just an OT observation ...

26th May 2005, 05:43 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Michael, Reading you mail makes me even more sad than reading Brian’s, as Brian saw the result, but you work/fight the problem every day, knowing the fight will be lost, if something drastic is not done. We, the collectors, can only be glad that someone will take up the fight, however difficult it is. I fear the problem is the same all over the World, in some places a bit better than in others, and a disaster in many places. The economical problem is huge, and I doubt very much, that the solution will come from the governments in the different countries. I can only see one way, a combination of (big) sponsors, (small sponsors) memberships, museum shops and advertising the museum. I Denmark the Toejhumuseum makes fights between the Black and the White knight, on horse and on food, and this seems to attract a lot of people – especially the young ones, but then the parents have to go too, and they make sure the also visit the museum shop and the cafeteria. But I guess you know all this already – I wish I could help. Jens

26th May 2005, 09:51 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Michael, You may be right that things seldom are stolen from museums – although there are examples, also recently ones. Some suggestions have been brought forward, as how to try to help, and none of them seem to be optimal. You sit in the middle of the situation, what would you suggest? How do you see the future, do you think the museums will get better possibilities for conservation, better exhibitions? To be quit honest – I don’t, and I don’t want to tell you why, as I would have to get into politics, and would get into troubles with the moderators, but I think you get the idea. Jens

27th May 2005, 06:49 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	Rick, I read part of that book and could not get into it (though I thought the idea of a Scottish space fleet interesting). There is one exception to this forboding. Here in Louisville, KY, US we have things like the Frazier Arms Museum. Although attendance is lower than what they would have liked, it displays arms and adds martial and historical re-enactments to the show. Most of the arms displayed come from the basement of the Royal Armouries in Great Britain. Although mostly European and American in focus, there is a smatering of ethnographic stuff. Some of us on this forum have visited and enjoyed. On a side note, I was originally asked to be a consultant for the museum until the original group working on the internet portion fell apart. Now I'm just another customer.

27th May 2005, 01:41 PM	#7
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I understand how collectors feel when they see fantastic specimens that they could hardly get in the market crumble and decay with neglect in a Museum. But lets face it, Museums are not passionate collectors who will take care of their collection with all the loving care they can spare. If the weapons are like our children, Museums are like orphanages. It may not be the best place, but at least some decent care is dished out by the Museums. Moreover, collectors lose interest, get lazy and forget. A well-kept collection could as easily fall into a decrepit state when the collector falters in his passion. More often than not, collectors pass on and you know what their children do to the collection that they never cared about... All things are impermanent; all things that are made will eventually be unmade. It is the natural way of things. Clinging on otherwise is probably not going to change much, but it would certainly add more worry lines and white hairs to ourselves. We do what we can and let the rest take its natural course.