Assistance requested for the translation of inscriptions on an old yataghan

Zifir · 3rd March 2010, 01:00 PM

Hi,
Teodor is absolutely right, the yatağan is inscribed with the names of the Seven Sleepers. "Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş, Kıtmir"

But the date in the middle of the tuğra seems to me as 1214 / 1799-1800.

Best,

Zifir

laEspadaAncha · 3rd March 2010, 05:20 PM

Thank you Zifir for your time and assistance...

Given the Seven Sleepers inscriptions, I wonder if the "closed eyes" eyelash pattern separating them is by design (no pun intended)...

Is there any chance you can shed some light on the use of the fleur de lis on the hilt?

I was also curious if - to the best of your knowledge or anyone else on the forum - the design work on the hilt and reverse of the blade might help me attribute it to a particular region (or even a maker)?

Regards,

Chris

TVV · 3rd March 2010, 06:41 PM

Chris,

The question of attributing yataghans to regions is one that even Dr. Elgood shied away from.

In Astvatsaturian's "Turkish Arms" she attributes these yataghans to Eastern Anatolia, due to the niello decoration and therefore similarities to niello from the Caucasus. She also admits they could be from the Balkans.

In Dr. Elgood's latest book, there are some examples with similar hilts, attributed to various Greek revolutionaries (and one short one I think actually attributed to Lord Byron). The book also demonstrates that niello decoration was often used in Yannina and Kotor.

Personally, I lean towards a Greek hilt.

The blade on the other hand, I think was produced somewhere in Anatolia, and then imported to the Balkans - Greek blades tend to be shorter and straighter as a general rule, while Anatolian blades tend to be longer, much more curved and often with layers of Turkish ribbon pattern sandwiched between the edge and the back of the blade. This is my own theory though, and I will not be able to support it if challenged, other than by providing examples.

I do not know the symbolism of the fleur de lis motif on the hilt, and am also curious to learn more about it.

Best regards,
Teodor

laEspadaAncha · 3rd March 2010, 07:26 PM

Hi Teodor,

Thank you kindly for the wealth of information and the suggested attributions. It is self-evident I need to expand my reference library...

I guess that is the downside to collecting for representation of form, as rarely does one accumulate enough examples of a given type to justify the acquisition of material dedicated to the study of arms and armor of a particular culture.

Maybe the fleur de lis will further reveal information pertaining to the sword's attribution?

Cheers,

Chris

3rd March 2010, 01:00 PM	#1
Zifir Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Istanbul Posts: 228	Hi, Teodor is absolutely right, the yatağan is inscribed with the names of the Seven Sleepers. "Yemliha, Mekselina, Mislina, Mernuş, Debernuş, Şazenuş, Kefeştatayuş, Kıtmir" But the date in the middle of the tuğra seems to me as 1214 / 1799-1800. Best, Zifir

3rd March 2010, 05:20 PM	#2
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Thank you Zifir for your time and assistance... Given the Seven Sleepers inscriptions, I wonder if the "closed eyes" eyelash pattern separating them is by design (no pun intended)... Is there any chance you can shed some light on the use of the fleur de lis on the hilt? I was also curious if - to the best of your knowledge or anyone else on the forum - the design work on the hilt and reverse of the blade might help me attribute it to a particular region (or even a maker)? Regards, Chris

3rd March 2010, 06:41 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Chris, The question of attributing yataghans to regions is one that even Dr. Elgood shied away from. In Astvatsaturian's "Turkish Arms" she attributes these yataghans to Eastern Anatolia, due to the niello decoration and therefore similarities to niello from the Caucasus. She also admits they could be from the Balkans. In Dr. Elgood's latest book, there are some examples with similar hilts, attributed to various Greek revolutionaries (and one short one I think actually attributed to Lord Byron). The book also demonstrates that niello decoration was often used in Yannina and Kotor. Personally, I lean towards a Greek hilt. The blade on the other hand, I think was produced somewhere in Anatolia, and then imported to the Balkans - Greek blades tend to be shorter and straighter as a general rule, while Anatolian blades tend to be longer, much more curved and often with layers of Turkish ribbon pattern sandwiched between the edge and the back of the blade. This is my own theory though, and I will not be able to support it if challenged, other than by providing examples. I do not know the symbolism of the fleur de lis motif on the hilt, and am also curious to learn more about it. Best regards, Teodor

3rd March 2010, 07:26 PM	#4
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hi Teodor, Thank you kindly for the wealth of information and the suggested attributions. It is self-evident I need to expand my reference library... I guess that is the downside to collecting for representation of form, as rarely does one accumulate enough examples of a given type to justify the acquisition of material dedicated to the study of arms and armor of a particular culture. Maybe the fleur de lis will further reveal information pertaining to the sword's attribution? Cheers, Chris